JoeCanuck
General Section => General Joe Talk => Topic started by: martin-montreal on May 31, 2014, 04:18:03 PM
-
We can see it on every GI Joe boards, there is less and less activities these days. From one side, Hasbro is not helping by not providing toys that people want/like and suppliers (like TRU) are not ordering enough (like for Kre-o). I'm an o-ring collector and never jump into the 25th line/Modern era except for vehicles. So, I feel a little bit ignored.
Few o-rings initiatives were interesting:
1- SK Omega: Original, futurist and o-ring characters. This line was also including (large) vehicles. But this project never showed up (http://www.joecanuck.com/jc/index.php?topic=4344.0 (http://www.joecanuck.com/jc/index.php?topic=4344.0)).
2- OSC project was supposed to make original o-ring characters and filling some hole in the GI joe toy line (shooter, Pythona, etc.), but someone stole the money... leaving the supporters with empty hands (http://arah-old-school.forumsmotion.com/ (http://arah-old-school.forumsmotion.com/)).
3- Legion XIV Productions (by Falcone) made few years ago some great o-ring female trooper. While pretty well done, these were 4 inches high, not 3.75... so they were not made for the original o-ring collector (https://www.facebook.com/LegionXivProductions (https://www.facebook.com/LegionXivProductions))
4- The.Black.Major "custom": Made a lot of troopers, Crimson guard, BAT and now female trooper with colour variations (Blue, White, Black, Urban camo, Crimson, etc.). There were sometimes few issues like smaller foot hole or smaller back hole, but the fans jump on these. Selling from $7 to $15 by the Black Major, on the second hand market they were going as high as $30. These are half legit. While the characters use the same Hasbro mold (and logo), some variation were totally original (colours never made by Hasbro for these mold) (http://www.ebay.ca/sch/the_black_major/m.html (http://www.ebay.ca/sch/the_black_major/m.html)).
So, most of these initiatives were fans initiatives. What's the future for o-ring collectors? The Club and Hasbro are no more interested by o-ring... with website like kickstarter, are the fans will take the lead this time?
If there were more o-ring offers (convention exclusive, club exclusive, fans initiative, etc.), would you be more "board" active, more "collector" enthusiast, still a buyer?
-
So, most of these initiatives were fans initiatives. What's the future for o-ring collectors? The Club and Hasbro are no more interested by o-ring... with website like kickstarter, are the fans will take the lead this time?
If there were more o-ring offers (convention exclusive, club exclusive, fans initiative, etc.), would you be more "board" active, more "collector" enthusiast, still a buyer?
I'm gonna stay active as long as I have stuff to buy/sell I suppose.
Collector enthusiast? Depends on what comes along. I was briefly intrigued by some of the later o-ring stuff but many people warned me I'd be disappointed in the quality. I may slowly collect 87 onwards for vehicles up to 90 maybe but any new stuff would have to be new realistic military designs rather than repaints of existing stuff.
For me the future seems to be Kre-o but it could fizzle soon as they get close to having versions of all the classic figs.
Maybe I'll have to collect 2 of everything?
-
as an o-ring die-hard, my interest is solely in scraping together the cash to get more Cobras or a couple of vehicles or con exclusives.
-
as an o-ring die-hard, my interest is solely in scraping together the cash to get more Cobras or a couple of vehicles or con exclusives.
That's an interesting comment. I'm up to 2 mint spare soldiers (+1 with my fig display) and I'd get more in a second (if reasonably priced). My local toy shop sells them for $35 if you can believe it (NOT reasonably priced in my book). It's funny but I have a hard time parting with any Cobra army builders. (Soldiers, Officers, Lampreys, EELs, Snow Serpents, Crimson Guards(!!!), Vipers, Strato Vipers, Tele Vipers, AVACs, B.A.T.s) Maybe that's where the o-rings are headed. A mad fight over the remaining army builders in circulation and 1000 Airbornes in a landfill somewhere.
-
my aim is to add 2 Officers, 4 Troopers, 4 Vipers, 4 BATs, 1 HEAT-, SAW-, Toxo-, Techno-, Tele- Vipers, 2 Heli-Vipers, Iron Grenadiers and Eels, 3 Undertows, Alley and Night Vipers, 2 Red Ninja Vipers, Slice and Dice, 4 Annihilators and TARGATs, a HISS and driver, a Stinger and Driver and Copperhead and a Mocassin
-
I see... in my Crystal ball... that I will finally be getting Battlecorps Predacon, and SpaceShot. Yes, yes. Both loose complete and also in nice shape. I think I see... a cracked elbow? Not sure on who, but I guess that I can live with that. According to the Tarrot cards, they should cost me about 30 bucks each. I see also a sunny sky with some light winds, so that must be good.
Oh-oh --- I'm losing the image! I guess that was about it.
-
I see... in my Crystal ball... that I will finally be getting Battlecorps Predacon, and SpaceShot. Yes, yes. Both loose complete and also in nice shape. I think I see... a cracked elbow? Not sure on who, but I guess that I can live with that. According to the Tarrot cards, they should cost me about 30 bucks each. I see also a sunny sky with some light winds, so that must be good.
Oh-oh --- I'm losing the image! I guess that was about it.
I wasn't familiar with those figures so I looked them up.
:'(
No doubt about what killed GI Joe back in the 90's.
Another thing. Who thought a Joe that looked like Captain EO was EVER a good idea?
-
Another thing. Who thought a Joe that looked like Captain EO was EVER a good idea?
The King of Pop probably did. I find your lack of Faith in Captain EO...disturbing.
-
Actually...
I bet if Freddie Mercury was still alive, he'd look a lot like SpaceShot on stage. A Big Boa stand with the bag cut off for a mike. It might work.
-
a Joe looking like Captain EO? What?
-
a Joe looking like Captain EO? What?
http://www.yojoe.com/action/94/spaceshot.shtml (http://www.yojoe.com/action/94/spaceshot.shtml)
What have we done? He's gonna be $60 soon.
-
a Joe looking like Captain EO? What?
http://www.yojoe.com/action/94/spaceshot.shtml (http://www.yojoe.com/action/94/spaceshot.shtml)
What have we done? He's gonna be $60 soon.
What have you done. You wil become my new fortune teller soon ;)
-
Can we go back on topic? My question was "serious".
I don't see Hasbro nor the Club, going back into o-ring. So, do you think the future of o-ring will be assumed by the fan? Customs made like what what OSC tried to do or factory made like what The.Black.Major/Legion XIV Productions did?
The.Black.Major can sell is factory figs on an average of $15 each including eBay and Paypal fees. Legion XIV Production is selling his figs $8 each. Do you think we will see more of these initiatives?
Can we see store exclusives like a "HJL Collectibles" or "Bounty hunter toys" fig exclusive? ;D
-
Can we go back on topic? My question was "serious".
I don't see Hasbro nor the Club, going back into o-ring. So, do you think the future of o-ring will be assumed by the fan? By a fan of money, yes. Customs made like what what OSC tried to do or factory made like what The.Black.Major/Legion XIV Productions did?
The.Black.Major can sell is factory figs on an average of $15 each including eBay and Paypal fees. Legion XIV Production is selling his figs $8 each. Do you think we will see more of these initiatives?
Can we see store exclusives like a "HJL Collectibles" or "Bounty hunter toys" fig exclusive? ;D
I don't know what the future holds for "O-ring collectors"
But if you want my serious opinion: it doesn't matter what recipe I think someone is cooking right now.
What matters is, after getting axed by ARAH Project OSC, because of that awful experience, I feel that I lost faith in all other projects that rest solely on membership funding. In fact, I learned not to give my money so easily, just like trust, particularly where business is concerned. If I'm to purchase a third party product, I need a garrantee that I will receive it, that it will be of good quality, and that It will at least exceed my minimal expectations.
So far, the only third party provider that has put some reasonable effort into his products, was Black Major. But even then, that effort is quickly overlooked because of the joints that are often loose. I've bought a good number of Black Major products but that was ages ago, and I haven't bought anything since then because of this in part. If anything, these bootlegs convinced me that it was more Worth it for me to acquire original Bats, soldiers, etc. I have a certain feeling of pride knowing that my collection is composed mainly of authentic stuff, and that's the genuine approach that I prefer.
As for the Shooter figures. As soon as I saw the first prototypes, I knew that I didn't like them and knew that if some corrections were going to be made, some issues that were the most serious were not going to be fixed in time for the mass production start date, so I stayed away from them, and it ended up beeing the right decision for me, as I still don't like the final product. Tooling (hence corrections in this case) would've been cost prohibitive for the price one was already paying for these figures, and the deadlines impossible to meet had it been decided to re-do certain parts like the waist per instance.
As for SK Omega, they had it right idea. But because they didn't succeed or probably change their minds about the whole project (we'll never know for sure), that only contributed to reinforce the presumption that old o-ring is a hard sell and doesn't seem to co-exist with the modern action figures in the same toy aisles. In fact, the only "O-ring" toys that I know are those 4 inch tall BMX bikers.... Everything else has either a ball joint or some sophisticated form of articulation.
-
Can we go back on topic? My question was "serious".
I don't see Hasbro nor the Club, going back into o-ring. So, do you think the future of o-ring will be assumed by the fan? Customs made like what what OSC tried to do or factory made like what The.Black.Major/Legion XIV Productions did?
The.Black.Major can sell is factory figs on an average of $15 each including eBay and Paypal fees. Legion XIV Production is selling his figs $8 each. Do you think we will see more of these initiatives?
Can we see store exclusives like a "HJL Collectibles" or "Bounty hunter toys" fig exclusive? ;D
I looked back at my original answer and it seems somewhat lacking in a response to the original question so here's a serious answer.
O-rings from Hasbro are no more. I suspect the change to the modern era figures was at least a large part cost. I can't say why the o-rings would be more expensive to make; maybe the molds don't last as long, the plastic or metal components were more expensive, the harder plastic parts take more time to manufacture so cost more, the manual labor to assemble the figures was more (most likely case) but they're likely never to go back to a more expensive process. They've already re-released the older figs in different forms a few years ago and even then some of the molds were either lost or degraded or broken so I suspect we won't see any more of those, even for collectors.
O-rings from 3rd parties' prospects are fading fast. The numbers for the modern figures are dismal and lets face it, the majority of collectors of the o-ring stuff are older guys looking to recapture some of that magic from the toys they got as kids. 3rd party guys can't do new "characters" in any significant quantities (I mean different characters here) since there's no show/comic to really make them interesting. Army builders are likely to remain popular but even the Black Major only does a few types and he's one of the more successful sellers. Why doesn't he have a generic Joe as an army builder unless he figures no one would want it. I also don't see much point in 3rd party recreations of the originals since a) Hasbro would likely sue their asses off b) who would buy an updated o-ring Airborne? Honestly there's not much you can improve over the originals due to their size.
If there is a future I see this. I could see someone releasing collectors editions of the classic Joes much in the way the He Man franchise is getting those cool figures at the moment. They COULD be made as larger versions of the O-ring design much like how the Star Wars classic figures have been remade, just lager and somewhat more detailed. I don't see anything "new" unless a TV show accompanies it much in the way Transformers or My Little Pony have been re-invigorated.
-
Can we see store exclusives like a "HJL Collectibles" or "Bounty hunter toys" fig exclusive? ;D
I think I can say that this would've happened by now. Also, since the switch was made from O-Ring to "No Ring" (Modern era sculpt) during the time of the Canadian GI JOE Convention, I think it's safe to say that O-Rings were cast aside for many reasons, one beeing cost and availability of parts. Were a business entity continue to make exclusives, it would be smarter to follow the CJC's example and compose with what is readily available in large numbers locally.
Also it's important to point out that HJL kind of already "shared" some exclusivity with other stores by carrying some of the Black Major's offerings.
The problem that I see with carrying an exclusivity is having the brand "Gi joe" attached to it, are not attached to it at all, which could be an even bigger challenge and risk to take in order to promote an exclusive o-ring figure that is essentially GI JOE-based.
Yes, there could be some ways to get around it in order not to get in direct conflict with Hasbro, but in this strong age of information, there will always be some keyboard triggerhappies out there who won't hesitate to promote one's product for their own interests, and even tagging it "GI JOE OFFICIAL FIGURE" to ensure that they reach the widest crowd and get big time media attention.
-
If there is a future I see this. I could see someone releasing collectors editions of the classic Joes much in the way the He Man franchise is getting those cool figures at the moment. They COULD be made as larger versions of the O-ring design much like how the Star Wars classic figures have been remade, just lager and somewhat more detailed. I don't see anything "new" unless a TV show accompanies it much in the way Transformers or My Little Pony have been re-invigorated.
Honestly, if Hasbro wanted to give GI JOE a fresh boost with a BIG explosion, they should've done like what Marvel Studios did with Captain America, and do a movie focusing first on Sergeant Savage and his screaming eagles during the World War II era. I'm sure that America wouldn't mind following the adventurs of another All-American wartime hero who fights the big wars. Don't forget that in the original storyline, Sergeant Savage wakes up sometime during the era of A Real American Hero, so if a clever studio choses the set of cards, and set a realistic enough tone with some an edge for modern advancement that respects the actual technology that is available at the time, they could re-build and reboot the franchise around the arc/story of the Sarge, and merge his story into how America's daring highly trained special missions force came to be.
I've been saying this before, and will keep saying: Sargent Savage's toyline from 1994 may not have been the Joe's greatest incarnation as action figures, but the idea was there, and it's still full of potential if you ask me. That's where GI joe should head.
Not trying to try to adapt the GI joe that we knew in order to appeal to nowaday's acceptance of GI JOE into the collective's subconcious. GI JOE should grow into people's hearts. So far everything in terms of movies was rushed. The animated series did achieve a higher level of quality but lack the soul of A Real American Hero, because they are simply no roots at all anymore. Just new concepts blossoming, but without the right pillar.
EDIT: Sorry Wal-Martin, I had to derail this time a little... :)
-
I can't see Sargent Savage having any commercial success.
It failed back in the day and nowadays even the hardcore G.I. Joe fan ignores it, while the casual fan is unaware of it. Without a nostalgia pull, and no 'fanboy' support it is a weak premise.
Black Major is likely the ceiling for the O-ring collector. Like me, many die-hard orang fans will either stop collecting or dip into the 90's territory to give a fresh breath to their collection. Neither bodes well for the future of O-rings.
-
I can't see Sargent Savage having any commercial success.
It failed back in the day and nowadays even the hardcore G.I. Joe fan ignores it, while the casual fan is unaware of it. Without a nostalgia pull, and no 'fanboy' support it is a weak premise.
Actually, Sgt. Savage did not 'fail' at retail, and in fact tested very well during market research. so much so that it apparently is one of the best tested line of items in all of the GIJOE brands' history.
The story has been that it was compromised by ego-politics between Hasbro and Kenner offices, after Kenner was acquired by Hasbro. The appearance of failure at retail was simply because Hasbro choked production and simply cancelled the line itself.
But that said, setting a premise in WW2 and having the character revive in modern times simply is too much like Captain America, and doesn't help the branding of a line with that kind of repetition.
On O-rings........I think they are long-gone now. The post-25th Anniversary style construction looks to be here to stay.
-
Compared with figures from 1990 and 1991, the Savage stuff is pretty dull. Aside from being taller than regular Joes, their puffed up chests made for unattractive figures. This seemed to be a prevailing theme for the time, though. (refer to Star Wars: POTF and whatever junk Toy Biz was putting out by the mid-90's)
I think it was a step in the right direction conceptually, but the execution looked about on par with what Lanard was putting out.
I wonder how Joe would do if every figure came with a special weapon with special powers that adult collectors could ignore. i.e. an anti-gravity backpack, a freeze-ray, x-ray goggles. It would make for an interesting cartoon.
-
I wonder how Joe would do if every figure came with a special weapon with special powers that adult collectors could ignore. i.e. an anti-gravity backpack, a freeze-ray, x-ray goggles. It would make for an interesting cartoon.
No way! The appeal of the original show was how great the characters were, not how interesting their specialty was. The specialties were best to only serve as a criteria for what Joe would go on a particular mission. Everyone remembers the great Alpine/Bazooka or Leatherneck/Wetsuit type teams or the Dreadnoks in general. I always associate some Joes with a particularly great episode. (AKA Snow Job, Scarlett, Tripwire & Snake Eyes)
-
The future of O-ring is nothing.
End of thread!!!! ;D
-
By reading you guys I see hope, vision and joy again! Now that I removed my pink glasses, I don't understand why a business model for o-ring couldn't work.
The.Black.Major is selling around 500 o-ring figs each wave.
For the OSC project, about 50 collectors joined their for to create new character for about $25 each figs. The project didn't work, but it's not because it was o-ring.
Do you remember the Tri-State Viper, that character was pretty cool! It was also around $25.
My point is people are willing to pay for great figs. I paid up to $100/fig for rarer, con exclusive, country exclusive, etc.
I'm sure 3-pack "Thanks for the memory" figs with well done packaging would sell well online or with smaller toy shop for $50 each. I would even buy unassembled figs if they were sold with more parts (heads, arms, etc.) so we could modify and adapt our character to the mission it would go.
Imagine if the Night force sets were releasing now instead of in 1989... or 3-pack with Tiger force, etc.
Think big ;D
-
Think big ;D
Re-release the Flagg! They'll sell, literally, dozens!
-
more like literally a dozen
-
Actually...
I bet if Freddie Mercury was still alive, he'd look a lot like SpaceShot on stage. A Big Boa stand with the bag cut off for a mike. It might work.
Damn you guys. now i gotta get a 60$ Space Shot to motivate my other Joe's. Im glad there's a dont ask don't tell policy on my display shelves. ???