Post by: SnowHawk on November 09, 2010, 04:37:08 PM
I started watching it last night, and the sound and picture are poor on some episodes, but some are not too bad. I had a feeling it would be like this when I bought it. I feel I got value for my money when I can get all 44 episodes of the DIC series. Hopefully Hasbro will come out with a deluxe version soon.
When these were originally on television, I didn't have cable, so I only ever got to watch a couple episodes when the weather was clear and I could get TV signal from Fox in Buffalo. I know they went cheap on the animation, and "cartoony" on some of the scenes (ie: an electrical plug exploding on Cobra Commander, then he's covered in soot and smoke) but they did develop the storyline on some of the characters (ie: Ambush's background with Range Viper Evy).
I was wondering what other board members thought about the DIC series. Was it valuable to the Joe Universe or was it a waste of time?
Interesting side note Sci-Fi was voiced by the guy who played Killer Carlson in Slapshot and Ambush was voiced by Walter Koenig's son.
Post by: ARROW on November 09, 2010, 04:49:07 PM
Trust me when I say that I get paid LESS now than in years past to do work for animated cartoons, in part due to studios trying to cover their losses from video piracy.
My admonishment is that if/when legitimate pressings of these cartoons come out on DVD, you will pay not much more for better quality copies and NOT be supporting something that takes money away from someone like myself--so, really was it that smart a buy?
You've paid $15 for garbage to a thief.
Post by: Scramble on November 09, 2010, 08:39:25 PM
I'm okay leaving this thread open but watching it. The first sign of disrespect, it gets locked.
Post by: akpayne on November 09, 2010, 08:58:56 PM
I think I might have this opinion, because I first started with the Joe comics then moved to the cartoons, but I really did like the Sunbow ones.
As for piracy - stealing is wrong, but it is a tough call. I had boot legged video copies of the original Joe series and my friends in High School use to trade VHS copies of the Simpsons - technically all piracy. However I now own 2 sets of the Joe series on DVD, and I am still forking out $40 a pop when new seasons of the simpsons are released. I don't think I would of bought any of the DVD's if I got charged with theft years before it was possible to purchase the items on DVD.
Post by: dodge822 on November 09, 2010, 09:36:15 PM
Post by: ARROW on November 09, 2010, 09:37:40 PM
Quote from: "Scramble"
Speaking as a mod, this thread is a tough call. At best, it can be a lively and intellectual debate about the validity of piracy in the name of acquiring a piece of the history of GI Joe that we may never be able to buy legally. At worst, it can break down into name calling and the two sides sticking to their argument without giving any ground.
I'm okay leaving this thread open but watching it. The first sign of disrespect, it gets locked.
Well, there's really no rational justification is there?
Its like trying to justify stealing a prototype of a figure that is never going to be made--it still abetting a theft.
Just because its consumable doesn't make it legitimate to consume--there's no entitlement in this.
I don't LIKE brow-beating people about this......but its a clear and obvious hypocrisy with people when they complain about the costs of DVDs and ticket prices for movies in theatres, and in the same breath declare they buy a pirate copy of the stuff. Even making the claim that buying a pirate copy is just a precursor to buying a legitimate copy makes little sense, because the actions of supporting piracy exacerbate the rising costs of DVDs--so doing this is shooting oneself in the foot. If a legit copy is $30 ( for example), spending $15 for a pirated crap copy means you just spent $45 to end up with one GOOD copy--and for material you can likely "sample" previews of on Youtube anyway--to see if you like it in the first place! The need to preview isn't even a justification either, because one can buy a legit copy and if they do not like it they can freely sell it to someone else.
And then there is the matter of the livelihood of professionals in the biz being affected.
When I do a storyboard nowadays, I get paid on average about $1000 LESS than I did 15 years ago. This isn't a case of the losses trickling down to minuscule amounts across the boards--studio just flat out refuse to take losses when they can avoid it, and they short-change budgets where they can to make sure things like piracy do not affect their bottom lines. So it in turn affect MY bottom-line, and believe me, I've asked why the 'boarding gigs pay out less these days. Answer is always the same: studio want need to cut costs and losses from stuff like video piracy. These kinds of "claw backs" hit all over the biz, and at all levels, from what I'm told--so you can just imagine the scale of the dollars involved.
Its kind of puts a different spin on it when there are voices out there that think they can justify "stealing" from some "face-less" corporation, but nope-----this time, on this occasion, its a fellow board member and collector with a real stake in this.
No-one has made that justification in this discussion, YET.........and I hope it doesn't get made. The lesson that needs to be shared is that inevitably in this sort of this, you can follow the path along to a point and it WILL impact someone....and probably someone closer to you than you might think.
Its not an argument about moral superiority, or a guilt trip.....or the inanity about some DVDs some people would like to see not being available in legitimate form.........its about something clearly wrong.
It is easy to shrug it off and say that one doesn't give a spit.
But someone in this crowd DOES (me), and I'd ask that anyone of a mind to do this to give a fellow collector and hobbyist the due consideration that they would demand for themselves if they were looking at something being taken from them.
Post by: NeoDragonKnight on November 09, 2010, 11:22:32 PM
Post by: SnowHawk on November 10, 2010, 09:05:05 AM
When I wrote this thread yesterday I was hoping it would start a discussion on the DIC series, because it is inferior to the Sunbow series, but it did have some positive points too. I was hoping to read about peoples experiences watching the show, or what they loved or hated about the series. When I was reading about it on the 'net, it was interesting to see who some of the voice actors were who worked on the series.
NeoDragonKnight had a great point too about how some of the characters act. I watched an episode last night with Psyche-Out, Bullhorn and Pathfinder. The way they interacted and their voices didn't match up to the voices I had in mind for those characters. It changed the characters in my mind a bit and gave them more depth.
I feel that while the DIC series is inferior to the Sunbow product, but it is still important to the G.I. Joe franchise.
I am sorry to the board members that I offended with this thread, it was never my intention. But now I know.
Post by: NeoDragonKnight on November 10, 2010, 10:01:12 AM
ok for my previous post replace DIC with Sunbow, but the premise of that post still applies. For the Dic cartoons I remember watching them and while they werent as good as the Sunbow ones, they still gave that personality to the toys though when watching, the first mini series was awesome I thought, and the reborn CC, Scoop, Alley Viper had personalities to match the toys with.
Post by: ARROW on November 10, 2010, 10:46:38 AM
Quote from: "SnowHawk"
Wow... I didn't expect this sort of reply. First off I would like to apologize to Arrow. I didn't know purchasing a bootleg/pirated copy would affect the industry so much. Thank you for enlightening me on the impact of pirated material. If a legitimate copy was readily available I would have bought it the first day it came out since watching it on Youtube or downloading a torrent of it is not an option for me (high speed restrictions). I just wanted a copy so I could see some of the episodes I never got to watch, and my kids get excited when they see some of their vehicles and figures on the screen.
When I wrote this thread yesterday I was hoping it would start a discussion on the DIC series, because it is inferior to the Sunbow series, but it did have some positive points too. I was hoping to read about peoples experiences watching the show, or what they loved or hated about the series. When I was reading about it on the 'net, it was interesting to see who some of the voice actors were who worked on the series.
NeoDragonKnight had a great point too about how some of the characters act. I watched an episode last night with Psyche-Out, Bullhorn and Pathfinder. The way they interacted and their voices didn't match up to the voices I had in mind for those characters. It changed the characters in my mind a bit and gave them more depth.
I feel that while the DIC series is inferior to the Sunbow product, but it is still important to the G.I. Joe franchise.
I am sorry to the board members that I offended with this thread, it was never my intention. But now I know.
Apology accepted.
Now let's put aside the nasty stuff and get back to the real reason for the thread.
Post by: Pete The Greek on November 10, 2010, 11:11:25 AM
All I remember is that Ambush and Pathfinder had a huge presence during the DIC run and that most of the replacement voices (especially the Baroness and Destro) were horrible. Operation Dragonfire was interesting as CC was brought back.
Post by: morgardee on November 10, 2010, 12:13:27 PM
Post by: bandonov on November 10, 2010, 12:51:33 PM
Post by: grunt 4 mvp on November 10, 2010, 01:30:13 PM
I wish it was available - I'd pick it up, or borrow it at least.
Post by: ARROW on November 10, 2010, 01:42:29 PM
Quote from: "bandonov"
I tried searching the net for the DiC series and all you can find is the bootlegs. All other forums state that Hasbro has not given the rights to produce the DVDs. So it will be a long wait.
There's a few different factors that could be at work here--one being actualownership of the series. The negotiations to merge interests and release a series like this can take a while--because different parties want different things.
Let's be honest here, the DIC series is NOT in high demand, so that is a strike against it.
The other factor is that the actual masters of the cartoons themselves MIGHT be degraded or degrading. The DIC series was made just before the advent of DVD came around. The likelihood is that the masters for the series are still on VHS tape--as transfer to laser-disc--the higher-end format back then probably wasn't warranted. Again, this cartoon series isn't that popular. If the transfer was made to DVD at some point for archival purposes, its possible the prints are so-so in quality.
AGAIN, with the cartoon not being in demand, there's not a lot of reason to go in and clean it up for a DVD release, and running off discs of crappy prints won't help sell it anyway, right?
There's a point of diminishing returns here, because the costs and time of format transfers for the DIC Llbrary ( DIC no longer exists as a animation studio--it merged with Cookie Jar Entertainment in '08 which is the former Canadian studio Cinar. Cookie Jar MIGHT own the DIC library now) might not be an urgent consideration for the holders of the rights to those shows. Such transfers might already be done, because the library of shows are an asset worth holding only as long as they can be used.
BTW, Cinar is, or was, one of the players behind Tetetoon which is/was more or less a show showcase for the Cinar/ Nelvanna shows.
Teletoon has a separate channel called Teletoon retro that specifically highlights older cartoons from other holders, and the Sunbow GIJOE cartoon is one of them.
So, really...........all the pieces in the puzzle are right there. The impetus is probably demand, or perceived demand for the show. If Renegades and G.I. Joe take off again.....I would think it would be VERY likely to see the DIC series--and the others like GIJOE Extreme etc.......to make a broadcast appearance again --on Retro or others--and likely packaged as DVD's not long after.
Like Mad Dog from Kelly's Heroes says: " Ya just gotta have a lil' faith , babee!".
Post by: ARROW on November 10, 2010, 01:50:02 PM
Quote from: "grunt 4 mvp"
I've seen bits and pieces, and although it doesn't resonate like the original, I'm intrigued to learn more about characters I never had or knew of, lke Ambush or Scoop. The voices I heard were awful though....
I wish it was available - I'd pick it up, or borrow it at least.
Little inside tidbit...a number of the voice for the series were recorded in Vancouver, BC.
Kevin Hays, a local radio personality there, gave me some photocopies of the file cards for the figures, as he was doing voices for the series locally--and Hasbro had supplied the copies to give the voice talent some "background" on the characters.
If you've ever heard Vancouver radio back then, it was largely a homogenized clique of Fred Latremouille clones ( and his wife Cathy)--not the most diverse pool of voice talent to tap.
Post by: latinjoe22 on November 10, 2010, 02:10:23 PM
Operation Dragonfire certainly comprised most of the best episodes of that run. simply because they are the only episodes that tie in with the sunbow series. While it turned its back on exploring the aftermath of the discovery of Cobra-La (refer to Sunbow's Gi joe the movie), the story did pick up from what happened to Cobra Commander at the hands of Golobulus (who was not seen or spoken of along with Cobra-La in "Dragonfire").
SPOILER ALERT: One of the other episodes that ties in well with Sunbow's universe is the one that re-introduced a very important Gi joe character. From what I can remember, the Joes are overwhelmed by cobra's threat spreading around the world, so they need to be able to meet the threat face to face on foreign grounds. They need the leader they once had, who would not be afraid to lead his men at the head of the assault, into any battlefield. When the Joes find him, he has found peace beeing retired and all. So the Joes must try to convince him to return to active duty...
EDIT: In the french dub, his codename was "The retired one". That's how the Joes call him at the beginning of the story when they go seek them.
I will definitely buy the DIC episodes as I am a collector at heart anyways and I want to own this as a set along with my Sunbow cartoons.
Post by: formbx257 on November 10, 2010, 04:47:41 PM
Post by: roger dodger on November 10, 2010, 07:17:23 PM
Post by: SnowHawk on November 11, 2010, 10:54:52 AM
At least season one had the more realistic looking vehicles like the Mobile Battle Bunker, General, Retaliator, etc.
Post by: bandonov on November 11, 2010, 11:54:50 AM
Post by: Pete The Greek on November 11, 2010, 01:01:32 PM
Quote from: "bandonov"
Neon colour vehicles? I do not remember that.
I should show you a big box I have full of them. There are colours decos that will make you blind. I am currently purging them out my collection.
Post by: morgardee on November 11, 2010, 01:36:20 PM
Quote from: "Pete The Greek"
Quote from: "bandonov"Neon colour vehicles? I do not remember that.
I should show you a big box I have full of them. There are colours decos that will make you blind. I am currently purging them out my collection.
Spray paint does wonder for some of those turkeys Pete.
If anything is head to the curb, let me know. :wink:
Post by: latinjoe22 on November 11, 2010, 01:42:35 PM
Post by: dodge822 on November 11, 2010, 02:34:15 PM
Quote from: "latinjoe22"
Speaking of flashy neon colours, it would only be fitting if the DIC episodes' box set came in these colours, with pink, orange and yellow disk covers.
dont give them any ideas
Post by: ARROW on November 11, 2010, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: "bandonov"
Neon colour vehicles? I do not remember that.The Badger was one of them, iirc. The online refs say it was a neon green/yellow, but I have a memory of it being a bright turquoise colour.
Its a vehicle I've always thought would have benefited from a two-tone camouflage, like a tan and dark brown desert scheme.
Post by: 5h4rK on November 11, 2010, 04:48:24 PM
Quote from: "ARROW"
Quote from: "bandonov"Neon colour vehicles? I do not remember that.The Badger was one of them, iirc. The online refs say it was a neon green/yellow, but I have a memory of it being a bright turquoise colour.
Its a vehicle I've always thought would have benefited from a two-tone camouflage, like a tan and dark brown desert scheme.
Yep, it was indeed a poor color scheme.. but the turquoise vehicule you're talking about is the Mudbuster I think, and not the Badger!
(http://http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/93/mudbuster/mudbuster_right.jpg)
Post by: bandonov on November 11, 2010, 04:55:10 PM
Now I do not feel so bad about all the money I spent buying RoC vehicles.
Post by: ARROW on November 11, 2010, 05:11:45 PM
Regardless it too would benefit from a re-colouring too-and perhaps some modernized parts. Although a bit cheap, they don't look too bad as designs even today--but the colours are very wrong.
Post by: NeoDragonKnight on November 11, 2010, 06:11:46 PM
heres the badger, I have one from a garage sale my bro picked up 15 years ago around. Was actually a decent toy, just poor colors as was said.
Post by: bandonov on November 11, 2010, 06:27:54 PM
Post by: latinjoe22 on November 11, 2010, 06:51:55 PM
Quote from: "dodge822"
Quote from: "latinjoe22"Speaking of flashy neon colours, it would only be fitting if the DIC episodes' box set came in these colours, with pink, orange and yellow disk covers.
dont give them any ideas :lol:
Post by: latinjoe22 on November 11, 2010, 06:55:58 PM
Quote from: "Pete The Greek"
Quote from: "bandonov"Neon colour vehicles? I do not remember that.
I should show you a big box I have full of them. There are colours decos that will make you blind. I am currently purging them out my collection.
I am looking for some neon stuff actually...
Post by: dodge822 on November 11, 2010, 07:43:07 PM
Quote from: "latinjoe22"
Quote from: "Pete The Greek"Quote from: "bandonov"Neon colour vehicles? I do not remember that.
I should show you a big box I have full of them. There are colours decos that will make you blind. I am currently purging them out my collection.
I am looking for some neon stuff actually...
like what?
Post by: 5h4rK on November 18, 2010, 11:48:13 PM
Quote from: "dodge822"
like what?
LJ wants to armybuild Lobotomaxx...