Post by: BHMike on February 08, 2004, 02:07:21 PM
But last night when I was 'finishing up' at the store, and all day today it keeps bugging me.
Here's what's bugging me.
1. Someone else originally won the figure.... however since he never came back to the meet, we did another draw for it. Is that really fair to him? It's not his fault he couldn't make it back in time..... he loves Joe just as much as us, and would of liked to of won it as well..... It bugs me that we drew another name when 'technically' he won it fair and square. (Except he wasn't there).
2. The person who won it the second time also won it fair and square - only because the 1st person wasn't back yet......
3. The 'trade from hell' as I'm calling it...... shouldn't of happened - PERIOD. If the 2nd person that won it didn't give a crap about it and was willing to trade it off, then he should of never entered the raffle in the first place. - OR.... when he won it, refused it and we would of drawn again. The '3rd' owner was the same as everyone else that attended..... NOT the winner of the figure. I think we can all agree on that - but don't post a reply yet.
In my opinion, the 1st person who won it SHOULD own it.....
Is that fair to the second person that won it?
If 'whoever' won it, traded or sold it, would you be angry with them because YOU wanted it for your own collection?.....
Just things that are bugging me, and I feel 'tainted' the Joe Meet.
So..... Since the figure is with me right now (needed to take a better pic of it), I'm curious what others think. Don't reply to this thread - unless you want to..... but PLEASE take the time to voice your opinion in the poll. No one will know which one you voted for.... and it will help me 'resolve' this in my mind.
Thanks guys.
Mike
Post by: Stealth Viper on February 08, 2004, 02:30:05 PM
Post by: BHMike on February 08, 2004, 02:46:49 PM
Post by: Stealth Viper on February 08, 2004, 02:51:17 PM
Quote from: ""BHT""
How about now?.......
Works.
Gee... 1 vote, wonder what I voted? :roll:
Post by: BHMike on February 08, 2004, 02:58:41 PM
Once I talk to all three involved (feel free to post guys), I'm hoping we'll be able to resolve this..... since I've gotten some Private Messages and emails about this already.
Mike
Post by: Crimson Viper Commander on February 08, 2004, 03:04:38 PM
Post by: BHMike on February 08, 2004, 03:15:21 PM
Not before we did the 'draw'.
After the draw, and everyone looked bummed out (and some even said 'he's not here!), we gave him until the time he said he 'should' be back by and then did another draw..... to which the person that won it that time, traded off the item for something 'much' easier to get ahold off...... If the 2nd guy didn't want it, he shouldn't of bothered getting tickets - 3 other folks didn't get tickets for that reason - they didn't want it.
Mike
Post by: airedevon on February 08, 2004, 03:20:10 PM
I understand the sentiment of wanting to keep the MOC figure in Canada...
But this is a TOY -- a figure! a fun piece of history!!!
Threatening bodily harm to my son to keep it in Canada was definitely NOT COOL!!!
As to who should get it....
Well, you essentially "stole" it from my son -- I don't know why you should have any decision making powers over it!!
You made a big point before the con, letting everyone know that you needed to be actually present to get a convention figure -- Taht seemed VERY important to you!
By the same token, you made the decision that in order to win the raffled MOC figure, you needed to be present...
The first person, wasn't there, so he forfeited.. (That's hard, but it's reality and it's only fair - everybody else went by the rules!!)
The second person who won it, Deadshot, won it fair and square - and once it was his, it was his to do as he pleased!!! Even if you don't like his choice. It is HIS choice!!!
He opted to trace it to my son, Colin, because he knows how much Colin wanted it - the lengths to which he had done everything in his power to get to the convention - and he knew that, by letting Colin have it, it would be featured in my upcoming book and the CXanuck Con and Bounty Hunter toys would get lots of great press!
I think it was really decent and cool of him to do that!
Bottom line, Deadshot won it fair and square -- Whatever he wished to do with it was his business and not yours or any one elses!
What you did to my son, was REALLY WRONG!!!
Here is a teenager - a highschooler -- out on a cool trip to make new friends and just overall have a great experience -- and you first try legalese on him (Hasbro said it couldn't be sold and trading it was tantamount to selling it... By the way, was Hasbro really involved in the production of the figure -- if so, that's really cool!)
But then you threaten to jump up and down on my son's belongings and "smash everything" and then to smash my son!
All in the name of keeping a figure in Canada?????
My son is a cool kid and I am so glad that he surrendered the figure to you rather than risk escalating the violence-- Maybe the police should have been called in - but it is over - you took it from him.
Deadshot has his red Crimson Twins, I am going to pick Colin and his buddy up at the airport pretty soon, and hopefully, put this behind us.
By the way, if it was so important to you to keep the figure in Canada, why did you let Colin participate in the raffle? He bought 30 tickets!
Why not let everyone know ahead of time: Canadians only!
Post by: airedevon on February 08, 2004, 03:22:03 PM
I can't find a way to go back in and edit...
Post by: Spillspleen on February 08, 2004, 05:51:05 PM
Here is my take...and I can only speak from what I have read here?.so I am neutral in this as far witnessing the whole thing.
First things first?if there were no rules for the contest I say ?Shame on you Bounty Hunter Toys??always make some rules so these thing do not happen.
Second?No rules means No rules and if Bounty Hunter Toys does decide to change the rules then so be it?no going back, no guilt, no worries?let it go, it is done. The first person lost fare and square.
Third?the second winner owns the item as soon as he won it and can do what he wants with it (unless the rules said that he had to agree to keep it?but there were no rules so its his)...he should have traded to me?but whom ever he did trade it to good for him!
Forth?threatening any person with bodily harm is silly?and not cool?if this really happened then I would suggest a huge apology be made to the people threatened (I can not imagine going to another country and being threatened by the locals?that?s pretty scary?and if you?re a kid who is being threatened?well ?wow?and if it was me I would have laid charges right there as you can not do that according to the law in Canada) and an apology should also be made the people who witnessed this incident at the ?Meet? and now the whole Joe Canuck form as I am personally weirded out by this.
If the above details are incorrect then I apologize for any people who I might upset by making a public (Joe Public) comments. This is just my take?and I am sure that once this is resolved things well get better for those who were affected by the whole thing.
Post by: Stealth Viper on February 08, 2004, 06:20:46 PM
As far as I am concerned, there never should have been a 2nd draw.
Post by: airedevon on February 08, 2004, 06:33:26 PM
As to why is it worth all this fuss? Colin just got home and he and Blake have now given me more details-- The threat of violence to my son was actually much worse than I thought! Mike is a big guy and was up in Colin's face yelling and ready to punch!!!
Mike had previously taken Deadshot out of the room and bullied him as well -- Deadshot came back into the room white as a sheet!
Several people left the con because of Mike's screaming--
Yes, I would say this is worth talking abou!!
Mike, do what you can, man, to make this right. I have received emails and you have upset a lot of people!
Post by: Radio Guy on February 08, 2004, 06:53:04 PM
As for "several people leaving due to the screaming"...some people had packed up their stuff and were getting ready to leave anyway...we had just taken a group photo because of this, and once the picture was taken, they headed out.
i also understand that mike offered to "make it right" and everone involved decided it was an amicable solution.
I agree with Damed Viper...at this point, it's not worth it...live in the now.
Post by: USWC on February 08, 2004, 07:31:54 PM
THANKS to everyone there especially the guys who organized this meet and to everyone who helped out others there!!!
PeteTheGreek ? Thank you again for picking us up from the airport. That was really cool of you. We enjoyed meeting you, Ryan, and Jon!!
Charles ? the custom Terror Drome that you brought was great! I am so glad that I snapped some pictures of it. The snow soldiers that you made were cool too. (Blake and I each got one of your ?Snow Police? :) ) Oh, if you get a chance, can you e-mail me a copy of the group photo that you took? I would really like to have one! (colin1308@yahoo.com)
Loop ? The customs that you sculpted were AWESOME!! Man you really have some great talent. I still can?t get over those! (George Bush, the Canadian Ranger, even you!!)
Ken ? Thanks again for that Frag Viper!! After getting to e-mail with you, I was worried that I wouldn?t get a chance to meet you, but luckily you got to show up! I am so sorry about all this mess!!!
DeadShot ? Thank you soo much for putting me and Blake up for the night, and for taking us to the airport. Getting to hang with you afterwards was a lot of fun. I know you said that eventually you want to see Texas, when you do look me up most definitely?You will have a place to stay!
Mike ? And thanks to you, too, for making this con happen. I really want you to know how much I appreciate all the effort and time you put into this! It was great to meet people who share memories of these great toys, and have such a passion for them. Canada was great and I am glad that I got to meet everyone!
But you know it was hairy there at the end of the night, and I?ve got to admit that it is good to be home.
Post by: USWC on February 08, 2004, 07:56:22 PM
Mike DID threaten me and the toys that were in my bag with physical harm. He told me that he would jump on my bags, he told me that he would rip the MOC figure in half, and he told me that under no circumstances would I leave the con with that figure. He said that he would do anything that was necessary to stop me. Even after the incident was over, Mike told me, laughing, that normally he wouldn?t hit someone, but he was ready to punch me if it meant getting the MOC figure back.
The group photo was taken, true, but most people had stayed to continue playing the wrestling game on the PS2. The convention, and the good times that people were having all stopped when Mike made the scene.
And yes, we did agree on an amiable solution, but Mike also made it very clear to EVERYONE who witnessed the event, that it was not be spoken about. That what happened in that room stayed IN that room. He said this multiple times, and then he decided to start this thread about the topic, after he requested that we don?t.
I am sorry about this whole situation, none of this was necessary. But most of all I am sorry for Deadshot who got put in the middle of all this.
Post by: airedevon on February 09, 2004, 09:10:58 AM
Mike, maybe you could make 2 more MOC figures IDENTICAL to the one you have now -- and then there would be 3 figures - and each of the 3 people involved could have their very own figure!
You could even mix up the 3 figures before sending them to each of the guys - so that all the figures have equal validitiy.
This way, 2 of them would be in Canada - and 1 in the US - Would that work for you? For the others involved?
I havn't spoken to Colin yet about this as he has already left for school - but I bet he would be happy with this solution.
I know for him the point is not being the owner of a "one of a kind" piece - but it is the honor of having a piece of Joe convention history that was, according to him, so exceptionally well done!!!
Apparently the card art was wonderful and the text on the back of the card was truly inspirational! Colin tells me that Mike just did an outstanding job on this careded figure!!
Being the owner of one of a "three of a kind" internationally held piece would equally as good!
Mike, would you be willing to do that? To make 2 more figures?
They would have to be EXACTLY the same as the one you have (and you probably already have the template for them) otherwise they would just be customs. Not that customs aren't great in and of themselves - but what makes this piece special is that it is tied to a convention--that it commemorates a special time when a bunch of Joe fans got together to mess around with Joes and share great complany!
Any feedback on this idea? Or other ideas that would work such that everyone involved feels good about the outcome?
Post by: Pete The Greek on February 09, 2004, 10:17:27 AM
I have kept silent of this issue until I can gether all the information regarding this. (I was outside with Scramble and a couple of other guys at the meet when the events occurred). I have asked certain people to what happened as I don't speculate or assume. I have a good picture on what was said and what wasn't said. I will keep those conclusions to myself.
This is what I propose. Since Aire sent two people to another country (I know there visit was tainted from this incident and if it wasn't I don't buy it), I am willing to give up my custom figure to be used for a another unique carded item to be sent to the States. After all Colin and Blake were the very first Americans to meet us Canadians. They should get something for the efforts. If this meet was a steping stone for something bigger in the near future, why not acknowledge this on a unique custom carded item. I wouldn't alter the original carded item that much to make the second one. Something that states the first Americans ever to come for such an event. Then Pete keeps the first carded item and he could in theory bring it back every year to the meet or convention (if it gets that big). Aire gets to use the carded item for her book (it would be great exposure for BHT). So both carded items would be unique. Everybody wins except the first guy (but that will depend if he cared about getting the item or just wanted to contribute to the convention like my intentions when I bought some tickets, including the friendy rivarly with Ed).
After all this is a custom were are talking about. I wasn't going to lose sleep over who got the carded item. Honestly, I was hoping it would stay in Canada but that is my opinion. I am a completist but this item was not supported or endorsed by Hasbro Canada. Keeping that in mind, that carded item was a backup incase we were in the red (the hall cost was higher than expected and some people didn't show up). As a result, it would have been sold off on ebay if the the loses were greater than first expected. So the notion of keeping the carded in Canada doesn't hold any water as I know that somebody in the US will bid for it. If this was the case, then the Americans would have not been allowed to participate in the draw if the item was intended to stay in Canada. Right? But when the loses were lower than first speculated, I was glad the item was NOT put on ebay as Hasbro could go after Mike or I for making a profit of their figure. My view was that trading the carded item lost it's meaning or significance.
Like I said, worst comes to worse, I will donate my figure and time to ensure everybody is happy in the end. This is not worth fight over. There are more important things to worry about in the real world than this.
Peter
Post by: BHMike on February 09, 2004, 10:24:33 AM
Quote from: ""USWC""
And yes, we did agree on an amiable solution, but Mike also made it very clear to EVERYONE who witnessed the event, that it was not be spoken about. That what happened in that room stayed IN that room. He said this multiple times, and then he decided to start this thread about the topic, after he requested that we don?t.
Colin, YOU are a flat out liar.
There are witnesses in that room - I'll 'out' the folks that were there if need be, but I did NOT say anything of the sorts to you. Not once, not twice, and sure as hell not multiple times.
I made my points abundantly clear that night as to why I was so pissed off with what happened. I'm glad everyone enjoyed themselves, but unfortunately, I won't be doing anything like this again - MAINLY due to what I consider unfair (to everyone else) way Colin got the figure.
IF Deadshot didn't want it, then he shouldn't of bought into it at all.
Raptor had no interest in it - so he bought none. I was the force behind the figure, so out of fairness I opted to not purchase any tickets as well.
When Deadshot won it, and he was willing to trade it, then perhaps he should of taken 'trade offers' from each person that was there...... All that happened was Colin rushed up to him, offered to buy it, then traded for it.
That immediately made a few people angry at the show and they approached me about it..... They felt it was unfair since THEY all wanted it as well. True, you did purchase 30 tickets for it - but you still lost - TWICE.
Had people not been saying "He's not here - do another draw", I wouldn't of felt pressured to HAVE the other draw. When I did, even while doing so it was bugging me. 2 people had even said to me that I shouldn't do that other draw anyway.
Talking after the fact and saying "I would of hit you" is heresay..... Does it mean I would of? No. Does it mean I wouldn't of? No. Neither of us know.... I can honestly say that I wouldn't of done so.
Currently, the poll I put above is at 5 for Ken to have it. 4 for Colin to have it. Seeing as Aire just joined this board (obviously to voice her opinion HERE instead of emailing me directly - which I was expecting - but didn't get). and Colin is a member of it - that accounts for 2 of the votes for him.... the other two.... I'd assume one is Deadshot (who obviously lied to me then since he HAS the two figures anyway) and (out of friendship) the other would be Condor Knight.
I find it interesting that Aire (not talking to me - or posting for anyone elses info first) has come to her own decision.... then again.... Colin is her son.
As for everyone leaving, at that time, MOST were already leaving - some already had and have NO CLUE about what we're talking about..... There was still 6 or 7 folks left after everyone 'officially' left - how do I know for sure?..... We ALL came back to the store.
Yes, I did say I would of kicked your knapsack if you didn't trade back.
But this is what led up to it:
When I confronted you about the trade, and informed you that Deadshot wanted to trade back, you started saying stuff about 'In business you can't do those things - when a decision is done - it's done.'
This wasn't business....... this was a hobby and Deadshot had told me that he had changed his mind. HE even went up to you and asked to trade back. I (and a few others) watched as he did it - you said NO.
So I explained to you how you lost the draw the same as EVERYONE else in the place.... should Deadshot want to trade back (which he told me he did), then you should be man enough to do so. You told me No.
You made it so difficult to make you understand that what you did was wrong (by not trading back), that yes - I threatened your BAG and the toy inside. Fo you to come out here on this board and say that I DID threaten YOU directly is a flat out lie and everyone in that room knows it!
I accept 100% blame for the entire evening.... the good parts... the bad.... all of it. I don't care anymore. For awhile now folks have known that I've been loosing my love of this hobby.... That night renewed my faith in the fact that not everyone is into these toys for 'just money' or greed. It was all about the love of the hobby.... the enjoyment of our childhood heroes. One person even said that this was fun and that he'd been away from it for far too long. That told me that this meet did it's job. It made everyone appreciate the hobby for what it is..... fun. When I posted this thread, all those feelings I've had in the last few months started to come back.... the greed, lying, backstabbing, scalping and other crap that goes on in this hobby... that's why I almost closed a month ago. There's far too many people like that in this. Colin, you made your point how much you love this hobby that night..... as I did I. True, my voice got loud.... I got angry. But I NEVER lied in my post above and said YOU said something you didn't.
As I said. I'm done. This is pathetic. It's a custom figure.... that's it.
Aire, no offence, but you weren't there - so you really have no say in this matter until you've talked to all the other people that were in that room - including myself and Deadshot. heck.... Even then you're just taking peoples words for it - and I highly doubt anything you hear will go against what your own son has told you.
Already, Radio guy posted saying that I didn't physically threaten your son at all..... your son then came out here and lied saying I did.
????????
I guess he thinks the other folks in the room were actually just sitting in chairs and NOT listening right..... they were listening.... how could they not.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com'"
The thing is.... there WAS a second draw - That's just the simple fact! and it was Mike who decided to have it.Yes... you're right. I decided to because people wanted a winner - and they started saying it out loud to have another draw. When I came back after leaving for a few minutes, Colin and Blake were right there saying "It's been 15 minutes, He's not back".
So I did the draw. I didn't want to..... but I did.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com'"
Mike had previously taken Deadshot out of the room and bullied him as well -- Deadshot came back into the room white as a sheet!
Bullied? Deadshot.... I never bullied you. I spoke to you in the hall and merely asked questions and told you my opinions..... Again, no offence Aire, I'd like to hear from Deadshot on this and not have someone that wasn't even there say what I did, or did not do. Deadshot?....
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com'"
Threatening bodily harm to my son to keep it in Canada was definitely NOT COOL!!!
Which is why I never did that. NOT AT ALL. I never once threatened your son with bodily harm. If the others that were there would post and say if I did or not, that would end THAT portion of this I'm sure.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com'"
As to who should get it....
Well, you essentially "stole" it from my son -- I don't know why you should have any decision making powers over it!!
In the hallway I asked Deadshot that if he got it back, could I borrow it to take a good, clean, crisp picture of it since I couldn't take a good one in there. He said yes. He said it was no problem. I told him I would mail it to him this week. Once Colin DID give back the figure to Deadshot, and Deadshot gave back the two figures he got from Colin, Deadshot then put the figure ontop of his stuff on the table. A few seconds later I asked him if I could still borrow it to take the pictures. He HANDED it to me and said "oh yeah... sorry". I thanked him.... How does that have me STEALING it from your son?..... Not at all. SERIOUSLY. Your son never passed it to me - it went from Colin to Deadshot, to the table, to Deadshot, to me. WTF?
As for any 'power' I have over it.... It states on the back "NOT FOR RESALE". It states that to cover my own ass, and to ensure that I don't get a letter from Hasbro over it.
"Intellectual Copyright". - Look it up please.
If I make money off of the name 'G.I. Joe' on an item that was not approved by Hasbro, I can face a huge fine. This is why we had a raffle for it. NO money was made from the MOC figure during the raffle. I've done all the paperwork from the meet now, and the meet had an 'entire' profit of $8.67. I suppose I could split that with Pete the Greek and Loop for the gas our vehciles used while all three of us did driving around for it.... so I will. Loop, Pete, I owe you guys $2.89 each. I know we're technically in the hole due to the cost of gas... but hey... I don't want to get sued by Hasbro for having that figure MAKE a profit.
NOT FOR RESALE. A trade for an item(s) at a higher value means that the figure (AT THE MEET) made a profit from it. Therefore, since Bounty Hunter Toys and JoeCanuck.com's names are on the back of it - and it says in detail how the figure came to be could result in the owners of those two places (ME again.) getting a fine from Hasbro if they decided to take action - WHICH they have been known to do in the past and will no doubt do in the future - all because money was made from an item having the 'G.I. Joe' name, likeness, and logo on it.
I'm sure that's taking things a little extreme, but since so many people at the meet were annoyed and pissed off with how Colin got the figure, all they would have to do is contact Hasbro and viola! I'm screwed, and my store is closed - therefore resulting in me facing a fine or worse.
So yeah.... since I made it, and I raffled off the thing... I think I did have some say in what happened with it at the meet. Hypothetically speaking, lets' say Deadshot and Colin did their trade at Deadshots that night..... none of us would be any the wiser and therefore I wouldn't give a crap.
Since it was done at the show that I put together, and with a warning posted right on the back of it..... I NEEDED to ensure that the winner of the item owned it. This "the first winner should have it" stuff was in my mind at the meet (whoever would of won it), and has been bothering me for all this time. That was actually the intent of this thread.... because it was bothering me and I wanted to know how others felt about the fact that Ken wasn't there when he won.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
You made a big point before the con, letting everyone know that you needed to be actually present to get a convention figure -- Taht seemed VERY important to you!
By the same token, you made the decision that in order to win the raffled MOC figure, you needed to be present...
You HAD to be at the meet for one simple reason... the figure was for the attending people ONLY. Otherwise we would of had people from all over the world wanting to 'BUY' a figure..... We weren't selling customs to make money off the damn thing, we well selling them as a means for us to break even and help cover the costs of the hall rental and such.
The MOC version NO ONE had a clue about until they showed up that day. Therefore, I never said you needed to be there to win the raffle ticket.
It would of been a given of course since the raffled figure would onlt be eligible to those who attended.... Ken attended. Is it his fault that he had to leave due to having to take care of his daughter? He said he was coming back - he didn't. How do we know something didn't happen to him or his daughter and that's why didn't come back? He was there - he paid for tickets. He bought 10 before he left - then later on I went around and asked everyone else if they wanted any. Why would he buy ten tickets and leave? He had planned on coming back and he had no clue when the draw was. So yes.... you had to be there in a sense for the draw to purchase a ticket since NO ONE knew about it until you got there. Had Ken NOT been there, he would of never known about the draw or the figure. Nothing was said that you had to be "THERE" when the actual draw was being made.
Therein lies the entire basis of this ORIGINAL thread. Ken WAS there - he bought tickets. He wasn't there when the winning ticket was drawn.
Had I not felt pressured due to people (I have no clue who or how many) saying 'He's not here', do another draw!', then Ken would still be the original winner of the figure. Which apparently some folks on this board feel he should be.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
The first person, wasn't there, so he forfeited.. (That's hard, but it's reality and it's only fair - everybody else went by the rules!!)
But as stated above, we had no 'rules' for someone that had to leave to take care of his daughter.... If you don't show up for work because you 'suddenly' needed to tend to your son, does that mean you should be fired? No. Family comes first. He shouldn't be punished because of it.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
The second person who won it, Deadshot, won it fair and square - and once it was his, it was his to do as he pleased!!! Even if you don't like his choice. It is HIS choice!!!
NOT FOR RESALE. Kinda explains itself in my opinion. That's my view on anyone trading it. Well documented above.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
He opted to trace it to my son, Colin, because he knows how much Colin wanted it - the lengths to which he had done everything in his power to get to the convention - and he knew that, by letting Colin have it, it would be featured in my upcoming book and the CXanuck Con and Bounty Hunter toys would get lots of great press!
He opted to trade it? Maybe he felt pressured to trade it?
If he didn't want it, he should of given EVERYONE the option to trade for it then. He wasn't given that choice. Bottom line is, he shouldn't of bought into the raffle if he had no interest in it then. That's a discussion I'd like to have with Deadshot then..... since things that were said with me and Colin, and on this board don't seem to add up with what Deadshot said to me.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
I think it was really decent and cool of him to do that!
Yes, you would. It was your son he traded with. What about the other people that were pissed off about the trade? They weren't happy about it. Since I seemed to be the 'main guy' in charge of the meet, I talked to Deadshot and he asked to switch back with Colin. Colin didn't respect the fact that Deadshot had changed his mind - or that others were angry.... so I became angry with him. It's great that someone wanted it so much..... but don't sit here and say that it was COOL of Deadshot to trade it to your son..... WHAT IF Deadshot had traded it to Damned Viper, or Loop, or Raptor...... would you still think it was so cool? Would Colin think it was cool? I'd be just as pissed off regardless who got it..... so I didn't think it was so cool.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
Bottom line, Deadshot won it fair and square -- Whatever he wished to do with it was his business and not yours or any one elses!
Again, you weren't there, and you haven't seen it, but it does clearly state NOT FOR RESALE - which I've explained how it does concern me above.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
-- and you first try legalese on him (Hasbro said it couldn't be sold and trading it was tantamount to selling it... By the way, was Hasbro really involved in the production of the figure -- if so, that's really cool!)
If Hasbro was involved with it in ANY way at all - I wouldn't care what happened to it.... not one bit. But the 'bottom line' is that hasbro had NOTHING to do with it.... Which is why the figure wasn't to be traded or sold.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
My son is a cool kid and I am so glad that he surrendered the figure to you rather than risk escalating the violence-- Maybe the police should have been called in - but it is over - you took it from him.
Your son is a real cool kid. I got along great with him the entire night. He couldn't seem to grasp the fact that the figure was my butt on the line as far as it being sold, or traded. Can you honesly blame me for wanting to protect my own ass?
He didn't surrender it to me - he traded back with Deadshot. WHY he left the figures with Deadshot when he went home is a mystery to me.... perhaps they still planned on doing the trade anyway? If you didn't mention it here I wouldn't of known would I? So don't say I took it from him - when I didn't. Deadshot loaned it to me to take pictures. I don't appreciate being attacked here for something I didn't do. I yellled at your son. I yelled pretty damn loud at some points. But I never made any attempt to go towards him, threaten him, or did I make any physical attempt to go towards his bag. Saying something is one thing.... attempting it is another. Getting angry, voicing my opinion, and then resolving it is another. Deadshot SAID he wanted to swap back. Don't put ALL this on just me. Had the police been called..... NO ONE would of gotten the figure, and Colin may of gotten a fine for being in possession of an items that violates Copyright laws. I would of gotten the fine as well for being the creator of it.... once the Police knew Deadshot owned it and swapped for something of a higher value, HE may of gotten a fine as well.... NO ONE would want to claim the figure was theirs then would they?
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
By the way, if it was so important to you to keep the figure in Canada, why did you let Colin participate in the raffle? He bought 30 tickets!
You know..... I wasn't the only one that would of liked it to stay in Canada.... but it wasn't a 'rule'.... I would of been 150% content if Colin had won it fair and square. The problem is.... he didn't.
Someone else did. And now based on two things that Colin has said either on this board, or to your Aire, this isn't going to end soon.
Colin claims (going from this thread) that I physically threatened him in the room with other people in it. No bloodyt way in hell would I EVER do that. The only time I will physically harm another is if my family, friends, or business is being threaten. None of those 3 happened. Was I pissed?...... Without a doubt! But I NEVER physically threatened him.
Colin also claims that I 'Bullied' Deadshot in the hallway..... I don't recall bullying him in the least..... I asked what happened and said I'd like him to trade back (without going into the entire "NOT FOR RESALE" thing) - and as far as I knew, he had changed his mind as well...... apparently since he now owns the two figures that were originally traded for - he's changed his mind again.
I 'need' to hear from others in that room. Radio Guy has spoken up and said he never saw or heard any threats of physical harm to Colin....
Agent_Loop
StarViper
Scramble
Deadshot
Beach Head
Condor Knight
Pete The Greek
Jon S.
Radio Guy
All of these guys were still at the hall when I was with Colin.
Radio Guy has stated that I didn't do that.
I'm interested in hearing from the rest of the guys in the room.
Mike
Scramble is on joecustoms.com - so we'll need to get him over here.
Post by: Pete The Greek on February 09, 2004, 10:32:54 AM
Post by: Deadshot on February 09, 2004, 10:43:43 AM
If you wish to talk to me more about this call me at home
my phone number is 519-XXX-XXXX
Peter
ADMIN EDIT : Peter, NEVER post your phone number on a publicly viewed message board. I took it off. - Mike
Post by: BHMike on February 09, 2004, 10:43:44 AM
Quote from: ""Pete The Greek""
These are my views and opinions. Thus do not jumped own anybodys throats except for mine.....................
Like I said, worst comes to worse, I will donate my figure and time to ensure everybody is happy in the end. This is not worth fight over. There are more important things to worry about in the real world than this.
Two main things for me.
First.... MAN I typed a hell of a lot on that previous post. But I'm 'personally' being attacked, so I don't mind wasting an hour typing.
Second.
Aire, what you suggest doesn't bode that well with me for a few reasons.
1. It takes time to do those things.... Approximately 3 hours working on the PC for the one (so that time is gone anyway), and about 2 hours to card it up.
Cutting, gluing, cleaning the bubble, attaching. Ensuring it's attached. etc. I take great pride in my work and it does take time (which i don't have much of)
2. It was to be unique.... just one. And it will stay that way.
Now Pete's idea..... I agree with..... partially.
I will NOT make another one exactly the same as this one.
It will say version 2 or something on it. The write up will be basically the same, with an added line stating that this one was made a special edition for the first Americans that attended the Canadian Meet.
I see no reason why this shouldn't be ok with you Aire... actually.... isn't this for Colin? Didn't Colin do the trade anyway with Deadshot? Once Deadshot gets this, he'll no doubt be mailing it out anyway..... so this is basically finished and Colin will still have one..... So I guess there's no need for a second one anyway.
I just honestly think this is it for me. I'm most likely not doing another one of these things.... and highly doubt my original reasons for being involved in this hobby in the first place will ever really come back as they did Saturday night. Kinda pathetic huh? A meet for fans of Joe to get together and enjoy it ends up ruining my entire reason for having a store.... to enjoy my childhood toys and experiances with fellow collectors... how lame that someone claiming that I physically threaten him with bodily harm has such a huge effect on how I'm feeling.....
Post by: Deadshot on February 09, 2004, 10:45:32 AM
Post by: BHMike on February 09, 2004, 10:46:53 AM
Quote from: ""Pete The Greek""
Mike, Scramble and I where not inside when this happened. I was looking for a Toronto road map (to find out where Elizabeth Street is in Toronto to drop off Ryan) in my car and tagged along with Scramble to check out your store from the outside.
My apoligies.... All I saw was you walking in once with a map..... I assumeed you were just out in the hall. Sorry.
Those who were inside...... I really hope you do speak up.
This isn't my store being talked about out here.
It's ME.... a person.
Mike
Post by: airedevon on February 09, 2004, 11:22:55 AM
I started to write you an email because I had gotten advice that that was the best way to handle it -- not on a public forum
But then I received an email alerting me to this thread and I realized that you had made the choice to make this public - so, I wrote my email to you here!
Yes, I am going to get involved! Colin is my son!!
He told me that the encounter with you was the scariest experience of his life!!!
You say you would not have hit him? He doesn't know you -- and your body posture and yelling was threatening. You yourself said in the above post:
"Talking after the fact and saying "I would of hit you" is heresay..... Does it mean I would of? No. Does it mean I wouldn't of? No. Neither of us know.... "
What on earth do you think Colin was to think! Blake told me that he started to take off his jacket ready to come help Colin if it did come to blows!!
And, by the way, Colin would have had NO PROBLEM at all trading the figure back to Deadshot, had Deadshot wanted to do so without having firt been intimidated by you into making that request!!!
Colin was just doing his best - as a kid - to stand up to a person who had bullied his friend and was now bullying him!!!
Mike -- instead of making excuses, man -- Just make apologies!!
Let's end this!
Post by: airedevon on February 09, 2004, 11:27:23 AM
Thanks for making the offer to give up your figure... You are a really cool guy!
But DON'T GIVE IT UP! The figure is yours and you definitely deserve to have it!!
Post by: BHMike on February 09, 2004, 12:02:36 PM
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
Mike,.....and I merely stated my views on how I was feeling about the 1st draw....
I started to write you an email because I had gotten advice that that was the best way to handle it -- not on a public forum
But then I received an email alerting me to this thread and I realized that you had made the choice to make this public - so, I wrote my email to you here!
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
What on earth do you think Colin was to think! Blake told me that he started to take off his jacket ready to come help Colin if it did come to blows!!Ok... so he 'THOUGHT' that..... I didn't DO that. So why would he say I PHYSICALLY did something? He lied.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
And, by the way, Colin would have had NO PROBLEM at all trading the figure back to Deadshot, had Deadshot wanted to do so without having firt been intimidated by you into making that request!!!I just got off the phone with Deadshot. Are you calling HIM a liar then?
He told me to my face that he wanted it back..... And I made my point clear as to why the trade or selling of it couldn't happen in a previous posting. Deadshot will need to state his own postings as neither YOU or myself can speak for him.
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
Mike -- instead of making excuses, man -- Just make apologies!!
I agree..... I know I did that to Colins face that night. I don't see one for what he said on this board however. So I guess I'll need to wait then?
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
Let's end this!
Not happening until others speak.... so stop posting until they do. Nothing more can come from this until others speak what they saw.
This isn't about some damn figure anymore to me..... Hell.. I couldn't give a rats ass if I got sued over it now since I have nearly NO love of this hobby at the current moment.... Being lied about on a message board for all to see is completely different... I didn't physically attack or physically threaten your son. NOT ONE BIT. YOU weren't even there..... So please do NOT tell me that I did. I've apoligized to Colin at the meet - THAT NIGHT..... hell, I'm sorry Colin. There. I did it again. WTF more do you want from me? I know what I want..... I want an apoligy from Colin. One that says he lied. There's a reason NO ONE can edit their posts on this board.... so no one can 'alter' what they said.
I could just go delete your post..... or edit it if I wished.... but I'm not like that..... I admit that I got to angry with him. And I've also said that I would of been the same way with ANYONE had they done it. It was unfair to the rest - and I've stated my reasoning in my other post. You seem to want this thing more than Colin...... Why is that? For your book? All you need is a picture don't you?! WTF!!!! Screw it. I'll report mysefl to Hasbro. this is getting lame. I'm personally being lied about now........ all over a damn toy? Not even a REAL toy for that matter?..... Jesus.... how lame.
Oh, and a side note, the amends that I did make with your son already AT THE MEET..... he said that was fine with him.... why isn't it fine with you?
Nothing new can be said about this until someone other than you or me makes a post....... we've both made points..... and I think (hope) I explained myself very well.... Short of COlin being your son, you have no real say in this - other than what Colin and Blake tell you... so let them post.... you don't really know what was going on at the meet since it's a one-sided version. You've heard from Colin that Deadshot was bullied by me...... I spoke to Pete - apparently not the case. True, it could be Deadshot lying in this..... I don't know. Bottom line is you weren't there so you can't accurately say anything about what happened there. Only those who atteneded can - and I'm praying to god that someone else will so you'll see that what you've heard isn't entirely true.
Quote from: ""Spillspleen""
Forth?threatening any person with bodily harm is silly?and not cool?if this really happened then I would suggest a huge apology be made to the people threatened (I can not imagine going to another country and being threatened by the locals?that?s pretty scary?and if you?re a kid who is being threatened?well ?wow?and if it was me I would have laid charges right there as you can not do that according to the law in Canada) and an apology should also be made the people who witnessed this incident at the ?Meet? and now the whole Joe Canuck form as I am personally weirded out by this.
THIS is what I'm talking about Aire..... Spillspleen is partially believing what is written here... so he is 'technically' believing that I physically threatened your son.....
I didn't.... and that is the main purpose of my postings today.... to clear my name of something that I didn't do.
Quote from: "Spillspleen"
If the above details are incorrect then I apologize for any people who I might upset by making a public (Joe Public) comments. This is just my take?[/quote
If the above details are incorrect then I apologize for any people who I might upset by making a public (Joe Public) comments. This is just my take?[/quote
Based on what you're reading right?... Of which I hadn't said much of anything.... Aire did - and she wasn't there.
Aire, please allow those who were there to voice their opinions.
I'm pretty sure I said it in a previous post, but I admit that I shouldn't of gotten as angry with Colin as I did..... this is because of my conversation with Deadshot - in which he did tell me that Colin wouldn't trade back now..... Colin claimed Deadshot only did because he got 'angry looks' from the others at the meet..... Deadshot never said anything like that to me.
Still hasn't. You made a claim that Colin would of traded back if Deadshot has asked him..... yet he didn't. I had to agree to make one for your son in order to get him to trade back. I explained that I was going to alter a few things on it and Colin was fine with that.... That's how it was left. That's not doog enough for you now apparently.... you want one 'EXACTLY' the same? It's not going to happen. I'm sorry.
I'm a man of my word.... so I agree that I will make up his figure on a MOC card for him..... But it will be altered slightly. Which reminds me.... I need your figure Colin... in order to make the MOC one. Since we have no more castings of the head.
Mike
Post by: Pete The Greek on February 09, 2004, 12:08:29 PM
And Mike, if you are taking into account all expenses, then this convention was in the red. It cost me 20 bucks in gas alone to get the 20 figures (not including the drive to Hamilton for the drop off, which is another 20 bucks). If everything was done by the books, this was a money losing venture. Why did I do this (i.e. get involved), find out below.
Quote
I just honestly think this is it for me. I'm most likely not doing another one of these things.... and highly doubt my original reasons for being involved in this hobby in the first place will ever really come back as they did Saturday night. Kinda pathetic huh?
What? Figure or convention meet, or both? I was afraid of the ramafications of this. The reason why I got involved in the planning was to met other collectors and shoot the sh*t with them. That was the only reason for wanting to be there. If is heck a whole lot of fun to talk to GI JOE with somebody that actually knows the characters and product in person.
Post by: Pete The Greek on February 09, 2004, 12:16:25 PM
Quote from: ""airedevon@aol.com""
Pete,
Thanks for making the offer to give up your figure... You are a really cool guy!
But DON'T GIVE IT UP! The figure is yours and you definitely deserve to have it!!
My offer stands to end this mess.
Post by: BHMike on February 09, 2004, 12:32:40 PM
Quote from: ""Pete The Greek""
Quote from: ""BHT""I just honestly think this is it for me. I'm most likely not doing another one of these things.... and highly doubt my original reasons for being involved in this hobby in the first place will ever really come back as they did Saturday night. Kinda pathetic huh?
What? Figure or convention meet, or both? I was afraid of the ramafications of this. The reason why I got involved in the planning was to met other collectors and shoot the sh*t with them. That was the only reason for wanting to be there. If is heck a whole lot of fun to talk to GI JOE with somebody that actually knows the characters and product in person.
Maybe I should of explained myself a bit.
I'm at a loss as to why an 'alternate' version (which Colin and I agreed on) isn't good enough for Aire (Colin's mother). THAT has me feeling like most people are into 'collecting' just to make a buck. I said since day one that the meet would loose some money. And I even said not to worry about it. (I had planned on picking up the remainder of the tab). The Hall was $172.50 including taxes. I was able to convince them to bring it down to $108.00. :shock: It just hit me now how much we 'COULD' of been in the red.
Anyway, when I typed that above, I was extremely pissed off and majorly depressed that Colin had said I physically threatened him - I know it was Aire that posted that - Radio Guy did the right thing and was honest about if that happened or not. Then Colin then came out and told Radio Guy that he was wrong.... that I had done that. Put yourself in my shoes for a second Pete, you spent all this time planning this (which you did as well), and you've attched 'your' name to it (being the store), and had a great night (the good outweighed the bad extremely!), only to read a lie about you online? Yeah... I'm at the point currently that I never want to do another meet again. I have no problems getting together with folks I know and shooting the sh*t, but this meet was a chance for us to meet folks we don't know - and shoot the sh*t. I got along great with everyone - including Colin (overall). But someone is lying here.... in my discussion with Colin some things he said didn't match with what Deadshot said... and as I sit here and read EVERYTHING over again, it makes me look like a bigger fool than I did. So yeah.... I'm done. Last month I told someone else (a customer/friend) that I was considering closing the store mainly because of the bullcrap that seems to come with it - and it shouldn't.
Something he said made me decide to keep the store open (that and me devoting 12+ years to it!). This meet also made me realize that not everyone is a prick.... some folks aren't just in this for money and greed.
The meet was the (technically) second one. This was the first BIG one where it wasn't just guys sitting around eating dinner and talking Joe. It was something better that I would of loved to see become a yearly event - heck twice a year for that matter. I just need to calm down from the lies that have been said first..... I'm really pissed about what Colin said.... and unfortunately I need to 'wait'.... to read what others actually saw. I know me.... I know how angry I was... and I wasn't angry enough to do physical harm to ANYONE. You have to get me pretty damn angry to attack someone.... which I haven't done since I was 20.
The meet will most likely happen again at some point..... Because as I said, I know me.... I enjoyed it too much. For all the RIGHT reasons.
It's just that if this becomes blown out of proportion, then it may actually be done..... and I mean the meet. :-)
mike
Mike
Post by: Deadshot on February 09, 2004, 03:38:26 PM
First I would like to say that Mike did not bully me into wanting the figure back. After the trade was done I , me, MYSELF had second thoughts about doing it and tehrefore wished the figure back . Are we clear on this point now?
At no point did I see or hear Mike threaten Colin with bodily harm while we were discussing the trade back and ways to resolve the problem ciivily. In which we ( Colin, Mike and myself) agreed on the returning of the figures for the figure.
Mike even went far enough to offer to make a custom specifically just for him, with soe slight varations Ie a V2 of the figure ( which would enevatably make it into the book I belive)
Appologies were made, and hands shook between the three of us. To Me this ment taht the matter had been resolved in a polite manner with both parties leaving in agreement. I did leave the figure with Mike so that better picture could be taken of it, of my own free will. I had no problem with it then, nor do I now.
Personally I belive that a handshake on an agreement struck upon is worth more than any written document and shows the character of the person you are dealing with .
As for Blake. He did hang back but by the looks of the way he was standing, to ME he didn't want to have any involvment in the discussion at all, even after the deal was completed he had said that it was for us to decide not him.
I Do want the figure, very much so. Like in my previous post I plan on having it framed in a case beside my personal figure and file card from the meet ( not show..meet!)
As for the figure. I DO NOT Plan on trading or selling it to anyone ever , so far as much that if I were to die or stop collecting Joes at some point and sell my collection that the figure will be destroyed, never to have another owner.
this has all been very upsetting to me and I do not like the way that Mike's name, and character have been dragged through the mud and should stop.
I regret that this has all happened and I am sorry that my lack of judgement at one point in time has led to this.
Peter
I am not a liar, nor do I like being called one in any degree
Post by: Jon S. on February 09, 2004, 04:40:36 PM
I've only met Mike a handful of times, but I can tell that he is very passionate. He's definitely very passionate about his hobby. He put a lot of time, effort and thought into this event. This wasn't just a get together, but Mike's chance to bring people together. I could tell from watching him during the event that he was under a lot of stress. This is the burden of hosting these things. You don't get to relax until it's over.
I got to sit next to Colin in the car ride from the airport to BountyHunters. A really nice guy. He was clearly the youngest of us. (even younger than me!) I was more than a little perplexed why someone would fly all the way to Toronto to attend a little convention. When he told me about his mother's book, it became clear to me that "Joe Canuck" would be appearing in a Joe book in the future.
The carded Joe Canuck figure was pretty much the symbol of the event. It was the combined effort of EVERYONE involved. There was a spectacle in the far side of the room Charles's terrordrome was decorated with the "leftover' parts from the 2-packs. Some Snow Job figures with Police heads and some Police figures with Snow Job heads. A couple of Loop's other customs and even Big Brawler had occupied the customized Terrordrome. A HEAT Viper MOC was being raffled off, but the carded Joe Canuck figure was the real prize.
Mike carried around the raffle box and asked us if we would participate. Pete and Ed each bought a number of tickets. Not just because they wanted the figure, but because they wanted to contribute to the expenses of the convention. I bought a ticket because I wanted to participate in the raffle. I already had a Joe Canuck figure. I just wanted to play the game! I watched Colin pull out a significant amount of money ($30) to enter the raffle. The bagged figure was a great find, but the carded figure was even better. Colin spoke of his mother's collection with such pride in the car ride over. This was his chance to add a one-of-a-kind item to it. I know that whenever a Cobra Mortal appears on eBay, airedevon tends to be the winner. One of the greatest G.I. Joe collections in the world would not be complete without this one-of-a-kind item. The Joe Canuck figure wasn't just a custom at this point. It was the centrepiece of the first Joe Canuck Convention.
We had the raffle around 7:30. The winner was announced. (his name was Ken?) Unfortunately, he wasn't even around to collect his prize. To some, this wasn't a big deal. We can wait. To others, this was a sign of disrespect to the symbol of the convention. Why would you sign up for the raffle if you weren't gonna be around to accept your prize? Shouldn't the carded Joe Canuck figure go to someone who actually cares enough about it stick around for the raffle? "Not to worry," says Mike. He said he'd be back at 8:00. We can hold it until then. To me, this was a fair compromise.
8:00 rolled around and Ken was nowhere to be seen. The Joe Canuck figure would go to somebody else. The next winner was picked at it was Pete (Deadshot). He pumped his fist and claimed his prize. The people who didn't win didn't seem outraged that Ken wouldn't be receiving the figure.
Some time, and several pepperoni sticks later I heard Mike confronting Colin about the traded figure. At first Mike only seemed a little intense, which tends to happen to people at the end of a busy day. Colin's arguments had phrases like "well, in business a deal is a deal" or "but you see, my Mom is a completist". Mike had a number of arguments, mainly involving the risk he was being exposed to "Hasbro can sue me!", the disrespect being shown to the figure "you traded a UNIQUE figure for a pair of Crimson guys!", and the drastic change in mood that occured once the argument began. I know some people were leaving because it was late. I also know that a number of us moved to the opposite corner of the room and tried to focus on other things. Still, it was impossible not to overhear what was happening.
You can describe it any way you want, really. You can liken it to a large man bullying a slight teenager, or you can liken it to the-kid-who-has-it-all ripping off another kid, then refusing to trade back. I find either description to be useless. What we had here was a very passionate person losing his temper and dealing with a scared teenager who really just wanted to please his mother. Mike was not systematically bullying anybody, he just had so many negative feelings flowing through his mind that he couldn't think straight (what do we do when we can't think straight? we get even madder). Colin had gone through considerable lengths to obtain the figure, only to see it slip away.
Last year's mini-con was Mike's reward to his loyal customers. He gave us a generous discount and we all went for dinner. This year had the same theme. Mike would find a way to please his customers. As far as G.I. Joes go, living in Canada and living in the US are two totally different things. Hasbro Canada ships very little to us. A peg-warmer in Texas is a prized possession up here. Very few of us have a chance to pick up Crimson Vipers or Black Dragon Ninjas. But someone always makes the trip. This year, a very dedicated collector flew to Toronto for the inverse case. An American travelling for the Canadian exclusive. It was at this point that the line between what the event was perceived to be, and what the event actually was became blurred. To me, this was never about exclusive figures or "conventions." This was about visiting my Joe dealer and meeting some local collectors. To others, this was OUR version of the San Diego Convention (or whatever the one that MasterCollector supplies to is called)
We can't put the Joe Canuck figure in the same category as Black Dragon Ninja. That's not what it's all about. This was a Bounty Hunter Toys event, not a Canadian Convention. The forces at work made it into a one-of-a-kind, special event that brought happiness to everyone, and for a time, reminded us of WHY we got into the hobby in the first place. (half a dozen of us were playing with the figures and making gun sounds - something I NEVER see around grown men)
If you want to talk about fair, I can propose a solution. A deal is a deal, and I can't help but think Pete was influenced by Mike to trade back, this may not have been Mike's intentions, but it doesn't matter. If you want to be FAIR, then you say that a deal is a deal and that Joe Canuck belongs in Texas as a part of "The Ultimate Collection."
But I don't give a shit about fair. I think there exists a solution that can make everybody happy. I would like to see Joe Canuck take a trip to Texas, carded, to appear in airedevon's book. This would make the book ONE OF A KIND. No other book would contain photos of the carded figure. Joe Canuck would then return to Hamilton and hang on the wall at Bounty Hunter toys. Mike is so generous that he was willing to give away the symbol of his convention to one of the attendees. I'm sure he was hoping it would go to one of his regulars, but I will not fault him for this bias. I would feel the same way. Pete was willing to trade his carded figure for some Crimson Cobras. He has them. As much as he loves Joe Canuck, I cannot believe that he loves the figure as much as Mike does. I'll estimate that Mike is too proud to accept the figure into his own collection. So it won't go into Mike's collection. It will hang on his wall so that whenever a customer walks into Bounty Hunter Toys, he/she is free to look at the spectacle that was the centrepiece of an amazing event.
We are stuck in a situation where there are a lot of broken hearts and disappointed people. The most common thing I heard was "it's just a custom." This is true to some, but to others this is a link to a unique event. I'd like to see the figure remain with the man who put his heart into the event.
^Jon
Post by: USWC on February 09, 2004, 07:21:35 PM
When Deadshot came back into the main room (right after Mike talked with him in the hall) he walked up to me. He looked sad, he stared at the floor, while he was talking to me his voice was hard to hear and his speech was broken. So, when he asked me to trade back, I was perplexed. It seemed to me like he was doing something that he didn't want to do, and that is why after he asked me, I questioned him if it was really something he wanted to do.
It was at this point that Mike came over to us and started being belligerent. And Deadshot slunk away and left the room. He was clearly not comfortable with how Mike was acting.
The threats Mike made occurred at this point!!!
Mike, you did threaten me - You KNOW you did!! And you threatened my belongings!! And others know it too!
And, you DID tell us all not to talk about this publicly! Why on earth would you deny that????
But back to the trade and Deadshot:
Ya see, when Deadshot and I initially made the deal he was REALLY happy. When he had seen the crimson twins earlier that night, his jaw dropped, he was so excited to see them in person. So when he won the MOC figure, I asked him if we could possibly trade. I definitely did not force him to, In fact, I asked him multiple times if he was SURE that he was happy with the trade BEFORE the toys actually exchanged hands. At this point, Deadshot's voice was clear and he was smiling. He even told me, and I quote "I already have my personalized figure, what do I need another one for?" He had been so happy with the deal: he had his other Canadian Ranger, and now he was going to have the Crimson Twins, figures that he genuinely wanted.
Considering his excitement, it was confusing for me when he came back up to me asking to trade. The only thing that I knew had happened between the two events was that other people at the meet had been noticeably unhappy with what he had done, and Mike had taken him into the hall away from everyone else to talk to him about what he had done.
Mike, I am offended both for me and for Deadshot, that you would believe that after the conversation that we all had, you would think that DeadShot was still going to trade with me. When you comment on the fact that he still received the Crimson Twins, it seemed as though you were accusing DeadShot of 'going behind your back' to trade with me again. I gave DeadShot the figures the following morning because I had seen the excitement in his face when he first saw them, and again later when they were in his position. I knew that he would enjoy them and love them. These were my intentions, not trying to get the figure. Mike and I had made a deal, and that was that.
Now Deadshot has the figure, the twins, and that nice Viper Glider that he wasn't able to get earlier in the evening because he didn't have enough cash on him.
I saw Deadshot's home, and it is obvious -- from the FLAG in his Kitchen, to the posters everywhere, to the countless shelves lining his walls, and to the boxes of other stuff he had -- that Peter truly loves these toys.
The reason that I have posted on this board has nothing to do with trying to get the original figure back. The reason that I am posting is because of the way that Mike deliberately intimidated me and treated me.
Mike - you do know don't you, that there have been a lot of places in this thread where you say one thing, and then later you say something different... In fact the number of times you do that is absolutely amazing!!!
When the first draw was made, Mike, it was YOU who first suggested that there be a new draw saying that you have to be present to win!!!, and then other people agreed that there should be a second draw - then someone (I don't remember who) said that Ken said he would be back by 8:00, and you made the ruling that if he was back it was his, otherwise there would be another draw. When 8:15 rolled around, I did ask you if you were going to have the other draw, but I was not the only one interested. I did buy 30 tickets, but like everyone who contributed, I was happy knowing that if I didn't win the money was going to the convention, I even said that.
Mike, if you truly intended to give the figure to Deadshot after "borrowing it" to photograph - then why on earth did you start this thread to try to figure out who to give it to -- and to try very hard in the beginning to get people to vote to give it to the first winner???????
It's nice that you want to give it to Deadshot now - You guys must have had a good phone conversation earlier today....................
Kinda like the night of the convention????
Jon, I have to say a couple of quick things about your post. I never once used the argument that "my Mom is a completist." I wanted the figure. My mom does not worry about 'one-of-a-kind figures, she likes the stuff that everyone played with, or can play with. I wanted the figure. But I did know that my mother would have been more than happy and willing to feature such a cool piece in her book. I want this clear.
Also, I really hope that I did not come across as "the-kid-who-has-it-all ripping off another kid." My family has a very nice collection, but it is not without sacrifices. Our home is devoted to these toys because we love them. I have played with them for as long as I can remember, and I still do. They are fun, and I love the memories that they create. As for ripping DeadShot off, I made very sure that DeadShot was happy with the deal before it went through. I asked him multiple times if he was happy with the deal, and he then he assured me each and every time that he was more than happy with the deal.
And as for Blake (the other American who was there at the meet), he would like to post on this board, share his perspective on what happened. But even though he has registered, he is not receiving the confirmation e-mail that allows him to activate the account. This is very weird to me because I know that when I
registered, and when my mother did, the confirmation e-mail came immediately. Blake tried to register again, in case it hadn't gone through, but it said that
his e-mail was already registered, but he still cannot log in.
This is a crazy mess, and I wish that none of it had happened (I can honestly say that it was the scariest time in my entire life). Aside from these 30 minutes in question, my time in Canada was great, and the people there were awesome, and DeadShot and I had a really good time after the meet was over. I am sorry
that this mess has happened, but I maintain every word I have said. And I must say that I am not a liar, it is not in my nature.
Post by: Spillspleen on February 09, 2004, 08:34:27 PM
All my comments come from what I have read...that?s why I put the disclaimer at the bottom... :thumbsup:
I think at this point the draw should be null and void?this is not going to get resolved...the process was domed from the start?by no ones intention did this happened it just did? hold the draw for the figure again next year?problem solved!!!
Post by: BHMike on February 10, 2004, 09:32:55 AM
Quote from: ""USWC""
And I must say that I am not a liar, it is not in my nature.
Colin, you say that I physically threatened you.
Now, about me 'Physically Threatening you'.... It's bull and you know it.
Including myself, there's 4 people that say I didn't do that. 1 of them however only 'The Greek' knows his name.
Quote from: ""Radio Guy""
Speaking as someone who was present for what went down...I did not hear any "threats of bodily harm".
Quote from: ""Pete The Greek""
The threat of a violent act (i.e bodily harm) to somebody else was not confirmed from a person who was inside the room when it happened. He knows better not to lie to Mike and I trust him. I will not mention who he is as he doesn't want to be apart of this mess. We talked on MSN last night about it.
Quote from: ""Deadshot""
At no point did I see or hear Mike threaten Colin with bodily harm
I don't think I need to say anything else on it at this point....
And before you say anything along the lines of 'They're just saying that because they know you'... well I don't 'make' people do what I want... hell if I could do that then I'd be filthy rich and have a complete set of Joe figures (variants included!)
Something else that I 'need' to mention is the fact that you say I 'bullied' Deadshot in the hall....
I said I didn't - you say I did. He's gone on record to say I didn't.
Quote from: ""Deadshot""
First I would like to say that Mike did not bully me into wanting the figure back. After the trade was done I , me, MYSELF had second thoughts about doing it and tehrefore wished the figure back . Are we clear on this point now?
So that's another lie?.... or did you ASSUME I bullied him?
Just because he looked at the ground when he spoke to you doesn't mean a damn thing. It could be 'his character' that he couldn't look you in the eye because no one wants to admit they made a mistake..... which I'll do right now. Sorry I called you a liar Deadshot. Posting in my eyes proves otherwise as you've got an online rep to protect as well.
Colin, I came to an agreement for you... and I'm a man of my word - I WILL do it for you. But as to our verbal agreement to which you shook my hand on with me - it WILL be slightly altered. I'll admit I have no urge to do it for you... nothing at all makes me 'want' to do this for you ONLY since you flat out lied about me on this forum. (Don't deny it - see above).
I know it's a tough thing to have people find out that you lied.... but did you honestly think I would sit here and take it?
Nothing you say can redeem yourself in my eyes right now. I barely know you, but strictly based on you being caught lying on this board, I also have no urge to ever know you. ONLY for that reason.
I apoligized to you for how I acted the night it happened... I still don't see an apoligy to me for you lying about me.
Blake wasn't a member of this site immediately due to the sudden batch of 'NEW' members on the site.... seems they're only hitting this thread... and then votes for your side jumped. Strange huh?...
So I've set it up that all people need to be approved for now.
EVERYONE will be approved - just not right away. If they were present at the meet - I'll approve them. It's that simple.
I'm waiting for Blake to make his first post - of which I'm sure he'll say I did 'Physically Threaten' you as well... that's what friends do... they stick up for their friends.
But honorable people tell the truth - which you haven't done, and I hope Blake honestly will. This entire thing is totally nuts - I'll agree with you there.... but it wouldn't of been half as stupid if you hadn't lied...... THAT is a constant item that I'm posting about...... ME. Not a toy..... ME and the fact that you lied.
I plan on posting later on to a few other comments.... buit I do have a store to run, and it should of been open a few minutes ago.
Mike
Post by: Radio Guy on February 10, 2004, 10:30:44 AM
I also take offense to being called a liar by you Colin. I, and about 4 or 5 others were in the room for the entire time, and with us only being 15 feet awy, it was easy to hear everything.
Yes, Mike was upset.
Yes, he yelled.
Yes, he threatend to kick at your knapsack.
But I KNOW that he never once said that he would touch or hurt you personally. Not once did he cock his arm back or make a fist to imply that he was going to hit you. I think everyone who knows Mike can confirm that it's not in his character. Taking a kick at a knapsack, maybe, since he was so upset. But punching someone? Only if it was over something a hell of a lot more important than a toy. Otherwise, why risk the assualt charge?
Also, as stated, Mike did not cause people to leave. Some left before he started talking to you, others left during (and they were leaving anyway, as they had already taken their stuff out to their cars), and the rest of us were sitting by the video game. Your freind Blake, as I recall, spent the majority of this time standing in the hallway just outside the room, as I passed him when Mike asked me to go get Deadshot (who was outside having a smoke).
I also heard and saw you and Mike shake hands at the end of the confrontation, and assumed that all parties were fine with the offer that Mike put on the table.
Also, as we all know, your Mom was not there, and although I expect her to support and stick up for you, her opinion is biased, and therefore, without any credibility.
You don't know me, I don't know you, so I'm not expecting an apology from you. However, Mike deserves one.
Mike apologised. Deadshot posted the truth. So should you.
Make it right.
Post by: Pete The Greek on February 10, 2004, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: ""BHT""
And before you say anything along the lines of 'They're just saying that because they know you'... well I don't 'make' people do what I want... hell if I could do that then I'd be filthy rich and have a complete set of Joe figures (variants included!)
Mike
You forgot the foreign figures me and Ed have :D On a serious note, I swear on the bible (I am Orthodox), that I am not getting any freebies or kick backs from this. I just don't like to see somebody's name get run through the mud for no reason unless warranted. Something must have got mis translated or mis interpreted during the heat of the moment.
Post by: condor knight on February 10, 2004, 09:06:57 PM
-second, i was in the room when it all went down and i DID NOT hear mike say he was going to do any physical harm to you but i did hear him say that he would kick your bag and destory the figure.
-thrid, deadshot came into the room and came over to me. he wasn't white as a sheet.
-fourth, mike offered to make a v2 of the figure for uswc. just for him and his mothers book.
-fifth, deadshot had enought money before the con to get the viper glider.
i was in the store before the con with deadshot when he was thinking about buying it and after the con when he bought it. so i know this for sure he had the cash for it.
-sixth, as for blake he was walking all around the place, not always right beside colin.
-seventh, one of a kind means one of a kind. mike told everyone that there will be no more carded joe canuck figures.
in my option a 19yr old man should be able to handle himself and settle this in a respectful manner, and not run back home to mommy, crying about all this.
that my take on everything that happened.
just to remit, mike DID NOT threaten colin with physical harm.
:D
Post by: condor knight on February 10, 2004, 09:24:08 PM
and i'm not mad.
Post by: BHMike on February 11, 2004, 06:51:52 PM
Nearly 24 hours since Condor Knight added another 'truth post' to the forum...
Not to come across as a kid here, but you lose Colin.
You've pissed me off only on your lying out here.
You claim 3 main things.
1. I "apparently" Physically Threatened you.
2. I "apparently" bullied Deadshot into trading back.
3. I "apparently" told you we'd keep this quiet and not to discuss it online.
Two of the above you've obviously been proven otherwise.
Number 3 however..... I'm at a total loss.... IF... (hypotectically speaking here), IF I did say that to you, they WHY would I start the thread?
Why wouldn't I of told everyone else that was there that we were 'never to speak of this again'....... It just makes no sense. None at all. So based on your proven track record above of lying on two things already, I'm gonna wager a guess that humber three is also a lie..... I know others already assume it.
I know you're only 18, but it's appearing you have the mind of an 8 year old!
Do you? Seriously here, do you have a mental illness? If so, that would answer so much to me and others.
Regardless, I'm not going to be getting my apoligy from you - I know that.
I however will STILL make V.2 of the figure for you.... I don't want to - never did...... but as a man of my word, I will.
I'll need you to mail me back one of your 3 figures.
Whichever one you want the 'real name' to be on the backer card for.
Send me the figure, and that figures filecard and I'll make your MOC V2 version as agreed upon.
I think this is pretty decent of me considering what you've done out here online.
Mailing Address:
Bounty Hunter Toys
1104 Fennell Ave. East
Hamilton, Ontario
L8T-1R9
Canada
I will however put a deadline on this.
If your figure doesn't arrive by March 1st, then the deal is off.... I can't be held to this dealing forever. I'm a busy guy, and I don't have the spare time to be making customs all day. It's completely in your hands.
If no one replys to this thread by tomorrow morning, (relative to the thread), then I'm locking it..... I SHOULD delete it.... but I won't - not yet.
Mike
EDIT: WTF? This thread alone has had over 500 views on it?....
Incase no one noticed, I altered this thread so only those registered could now read it..... Still..... 500? :shock:
Post by: Spillspleen on February 11, 2004, 08:14:02 PM
Post by: condor knight on February 11, 2004, 08:16:55 PM
Post by: Spillspleen on February 11, 2004, 08:18:38 PM
Post by: Stealth Viper on February 11, 2004, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: ""Spillspleen""
How did he get three...waaaa...and I counld not score even one...well I guess attending has something to do with it...but three?
1 from himself attending
1 from his friend attending
3rd one? I don't know..
Post by: navajo on February 11, 2004, 08:38:58 PM
Post by: navajo on February 11, 2004, 08:58:01 PM
Thanks for listening guys
ken
Post by: Radio Guy on February 11, 2004, 09:17:50 PM
Speaking as a father of one with another on the way, I totally understand your situation. When young Simba was still an infant, there were several shows I had to bail on 'cause there were no sitters available and my better half was working. You showed, you threw down some coin, you had to jet. The fact you made an appearance showed you cared, and proves that there was no lack of respect. Tell the naysayers to F.R.O.
Cheers!
b
Post by: Pete The Greek on February 11, 2004, 10:41:24 PM
I still feel guilty by winning your HEAT Viper though. I never contributed in a give away thanks to somebody on joecustoms for screwing me out of the 2002 Crimson Vipers that I would have used.
Three figures? I think I know on what happened here.
Post by: Spillspleen on February 11, 2004, 10:49:57 PM
Post by: Agent_Loop on February 11, 2004, 10:51:07 PM
Quote from: ""BHT""
Quote from: ""USWC""Had people not been saying "He's not here - do another draw", I wouldn't of felt pressured to HAVE the other draw. When I did, even while doing so it was bugging me. 2 people had even said to me that I shouldn't do that other draw anyway.
When I confronted you about the trade, and informed you that Deadshot wanted to trade back, you started saying stuff about 'In business you can't do those things - when a decision is done - it's done.'
So I explained to you how you lost the draw the same as EVERYONE else in the place.... should Deadshot want to trade back (which he told me he did), then you should be man enough to do so. You told me No.
You made it so difficult to make you understand that what you did was wrong (by not trading back), that yes - I threatened your BAG and the toy inside.
As I saw it, Colin's stubbornness to not trading back the figure resulted to Mike's loss of patience. I wouldn't blame Mike for his behaviour; if I was in his position, I would have snapped or even breakdown twenty minutes in.
The reason I left is because the group photo was taken, I had the pizza, and I needed to stop by my relatives in Ancaster to pick-up a few things for my grandma. The con ran late than I expected, so I had slept-over at my relatives. Point is, the Colin/Mike argument happening or not, I would of left regardless due to family matter.
It's a total shame that another Joe Meet won't be organized by BHT, but at least I have met almost every Canadian JC member because of it.
Post by: BHMike on February 12, 2004, 09:18:59 AM
Colin ends up with three figures this way:
His, Blakes, and his mothers.
Now.... I'm sure his mother is a die hard collector.... (who just happens to sell rare stuff on ebay), but Blake handed his figure over to Colin the minute he got it - right in front of us.... Added to that, Blake said "Oh, it's got MY name on it".... Colin said that was Ok. and took it.
So he has 2 anyway.... his mother most likely has the third - I should of been more clear on it - sorry.
How did his mother get one.... well.... Pete The Greek and I discussed it and since her son and his friend were flying up from Texas we decided that if she 'really' wanted one then she could have one - ONLY based on the two guys flying up. Originally she was going to attend with a friend of hers... but she let her son and his friend fly up instead.... so it seemed fitting that she should be allowed to have one.
You didn't get one Spillspleen mainly due to the fact that I had 'verbally' been told that others were coming and that they wanted a figure - so obviously those who attended got one first. As it would be, they were sold out when Radio Guy registered.... so he never got one - or should I say Aire got his instead?....
Ken, as I said on this post and to your face, no one 'really' blames you man... we all would of done the same thing. Hell, I've closed up the store just because my nephew got hurt at school...... so yes, in any way, shape, or form, family should always come first. If it doesn't, then you need to give your head a shake.
Loop, I spoke out of anger due to what Colin said about me.... There WILL be another Joe Meet.... not sure when.... but there will.
Except this time we're going to have a freakin' HUGE list of 'rules' just in case of any circumstances that shoudl arise.... Hell, I plan for all types of problems in advance for my store and site - and I have set rules for what to do (in case I'm not here that is), I should of had the same rules for the meet.
The meet is done, I think it's safe to say that pretty much everyone had a good time at it, the good things of the night outweighted the one bad thing of the night. And it's done. I still haven't heard from Colin.... so I'm a tad confused on what's going on with the promise I made him to make one for him..... I'm actually hoping I don't hear from him.... is that wrong?
Anyway, consider this thread locked.... I'll delete it in a few days when I see people have had a chance to 'finish up'. Colin, if you're reading this, feel free to email me or PM me about your MOC version that I agreed to.
Mike