Post by: pdaat on April 14, 2011, 07:22:02 PM
http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/news/ ... d=28373633 (http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/news/business-news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=28373633)
Post by: bandonov on April 14, 2011, 08:07:52 PM
http://www.joecanuck.com/joe/board/index.php?topic=5481.0 (http://http://www.joecanuck.com/joe/board/index.php?topic=5481.0)
Post by: morgardee on April 14, 2011, 09:22:29 PM
Geez, that sorta turned into a bit of a rant, didn't it?
For the record, I have NO idea what a figure would cost from Hasbro. I just made that number up.
Post by: martin-montreal on April 14, 2011, 10:03:01 PM
Quote from: "morgardee"
Hmmm, drop the price of G.I. Joe, realize most of us want an 80's style cartoon like we had when we were kids that we can watch with our kids (not renegades or resolute), ship all product to Canada (including store exclusives) and show up / support the next Canadian G.I. Joe convention on June 18th, 2011. By supporting the CJC I mean throw Mike a bone and let him have access to at least 3 molds and say "Here, we'll give you 500 of these figures and it will cost you $3.00 a unit. Go cover your convention costs and help promote our product for us."
This ^^
And by cancelling the "recent" Target exclusives (now available at XYZ low cost store), Hasbro allows people selling those toys for $20 and more each. That alone show Hasbro don't understand how to market their brand and make profit from it.
Post by: latinjoe22 on April 14, 2011, 10:25:37 PM
Back in the 80's, prices of figures would never "drop". If I saw figures priced at 50% off, usually this would be due to the store closing down.
Just saying: GI joe in the 80's seems to have been a success because people kept buying until the line lost steam so to say and the buyers lost interest in the brand.
Nowadays: we seem to be expecting a sale or a serious drop in prices from time to time. But back then, this was something unthinkable. Could it be that the prices for toys just went too high? Or is that the bar is been set higher amongst collectors in general? Are parents really willing to pay 10 a pop for a Joe, or for 5$ more buy a Transformer for their kids?
Gi joe is not all Hasbro's got, so maybe there are other brands that are not selling too well. How well are POC sales doing?
Post by: Redmao on April 15, 2011, 02:35:54 PM
Some even wait for those sales and return their toys that they bought at full price to get a refund.
At some point, it's no wonder stores don't order as much... Just saying...
Post by: roshan on April 15, 2011, 04:41:43 PM
Quote from: "martin-montreal"
Quote from: "morgardee"Hmmm, drop the price of G.I. Joe, realize most of us want an 80's style cartoon like we had when we were kids that we can watch with our kids (not renegades or resolute), ship all product to Canada (including store exclusives) and show up / support the next Canadian G.I. Joe convention on June 18th, 2011. By supporting the CJC I mean throw Mike a bone and let him have access to at least 3 molds and say "Here, we'll give you 500 of these figures and it will cost you $3.00 a unit. Go cover your convention costs and help promote our product for us."
This ^^
And by cancelling the "recent" Target exclusives (now available at XYZ low cost store), Hasbro allows people selling those toys for $20 and more each. That alone show Hasbro don't understand how to market their brand and make profit from it.
That's not Hasbro's fault that Target decided to cancel their own exclusive. We are lucky enough that Ross got them at all. Ross stores helped the Joe line out of inventory problem they were having with a bunch of stock that got backed up because of canceled orders or slowing moving merch preventing further waves from coming out. Despite that, the Joe team hates the fact they had to put out so much product in the discount shops because it's watering down the line. So it's not all their fault that issue is coming up.
Post by: latinjoe22 on April 15, 2011, 06:52:52 PM
Quote from: "Redmao"
More and more people wait for the almost monthly 2 for 1 sales at TRU or Zellers to buy toys.
Some even wait for those sales and return their toys that they bought at full price to get a refund.
At some point, it's no wonder stores don't order as much... Just saying...
+1 :timbits:
Post by: morgardee on April 15, 2011, 09:33:36 PM
Quote from: "latinjoe22"
Quote from: "Redmao"More and more people wait for the almost monthly 2 for 1 sales at TRU or Zellers to buy toys.
Some even wait for those sales and return their toys that they bought at full price to get a refund.
At some point, it's no wonder stores don't order as much... Just saying...
+1 :timbits:
Man, I'm falling behind in timbits. LJ's got twice as many as me. I gotta start blackmailing people or something... :-
Post by: bandonov on April 15, 2011, 10:01:12 PM
Quote from: "morgardee"
Man, I'm falling behind in timbits. LJ's got twice as many as me. I gotta start blackmailing people or something... :-
+1 for planning to Blackmail people!
Post by: latinjoe22 on April 15, 2011, 11:04:19 PM
Quote from: "morgardee"
Quote from: "latinjoe22"Quote from: "Redmao"More and more people wait for the almost monthly 2 for 1 sales at TRU or Zellers to buy toys.
Some even wait for those sales and return their toys that they bought at full price to get a refund.
At some point, it's no wonder stores don't order as much... Just saying...
+1 :timbits:
Man, I'm falling behind in timbits. LJ's got twice as many as me. I gotta start blackmailing people or something... :-
This is your lucky night : Snake !
+1
Post by: pdaat on April 16, 2011, 08:36:53 AM
Quote from: "morgardee"
Pity Timbit en route.Quote from: "latinjoe22"Quote from: "Redmao"More and more people wait for the almost monthly 2 for 1 sales at TRU or Zellers to buy toys.
Some even wait for those sales and return their toys that they bought at full price to get a refund.
At some point, it's no wonder stores don't order as much... Just saying...
+1 :timbits:
Man, I'm falling behind in timbits. LJ's got twice as many as me. I gotta start blackmailing people or something... :-
Post by: martin-montreal on April 16, 2011, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: "morgardee"
Quote from: "latinjoe22"Quote from: "Redmao"More and more people wait for the almost monthly 2 for 1 sales at TRU or Zellers to buy toys.
Some even wait for those sales and return their toys that they bought at full price to get a refund.
At some point, it's no wonder stores don't order as much... Just saying...
+1 :timbits:
Man, I'm falling behind in timbits. LJ's got twice as many as me. I gotta start blackmailing people or something... :-
Don't feel bad. I'm more concerned by LatinJoe who has more Timbits then the site owner himself... this is dangerous for him :shifty:
Martin
Post by: Realboss on April 16, 2011, 04:11:41 PM
Quote from: "morgardee"
Quote from: "latinjoe22"Quote from: "Redmao"More and more people wait for the almost monthly 2 for 1 sales at TRU or Zellers to buy toys.
Some even wait for those sales and return their toys that they bought at full price to get a refund.
At some point, it's no wonder stores don't order as much... Just saying...
+1 :timbits: awarded just for saying it ;D
Man, I'm falling behind in timbits. LJ's got twice as many as me. I gotta start blackmailing people or something... :-
Nothing to be sad about I've been stuck at 13 timbits for months now. :'(
BTW: Time for Hasbro to rethink their market strategy. They are on the right track with the upcoming Skystriker.
Post by: bandonov on April 16, 2011, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: "Realboss"
Nothing to be sad about I've been stuck at 13 timbits for months now. :'(
More
being thrown around...
Post by: canprime on April 16, 2011, 05:07:24 PM
It could, fingers-crossed, mean more and better product for Joe next year that catch on with kids.
Post by: Realboss on April 17, 2011, 03:20:01 PM
Quote from: "bandonov"
Quote from: "Realboss"Nothing to be sad about I've been stuck at 13 timbits for months now. :'(
More :timbits:
Anyway, I think part of Hasbro's problem was the movie line. they really positioned themselves out of the market with that crazy high price point. Hopefully the new movie figures will be a bit cheaper than the last. Because overall I enjoyed the figures they offered.
Post by: bandonov on April 17, 2011, 03:32:15 PM
Quote from: "Realboss"
Anyway, I think part of Hasbro's problem was the movie line. they really positioned themselves out of the market with that crazy high price point. Hopefully the new movie figures will be a bit cheaper than the last. Because overall I enjoyed the figures they offered.
Nope they have not dropped the price... THOR figs are $10 and I would not be suprised if they make Captain America even more as it will be the biggest movie of the summer!
Post by: latinjoe22 on April 17, 2011, 04:19:33 PM
Quote from: "Realboss"
Quote from: "bandonov"Quote from: "Realboss"Nothing to be sad about I've been stuck at 13 timbits for months now. :'(
More :timbits: being thrown around...
You guys are too kind! Although it was kind of neat to have a bakers dozen----now that being said I hope they aren't taken away from me. :-[
Anyway, I think part of Hasbro's problem was the movie line. they really positioned themselves out of the market with that crazy high price point. Hopefully the new movie figures will be a bit cheaper than the last. Because overall I enjoyed the figures they offered.
I partially agree. I think the problem is that action figure prices seem to have gone high. There must be a reason, I don't know what it is. Supply and demand? Don't know. If it is that, then we can expect prices to go down. If it doesn't happen, likely that it's productions costs, marketing, licensing etc, things that the consumer has no power over. Marvel Universe figures do sell at that price point. I'd say that it's because they're backed up by a strong media presence but also fantastic new sculpts, vibrant superhero themed colors that are very pleasant to look at, especially to kids and their parents.
Look at Avatar, can't believe those figures were marked above 10$ from the beginning. Terminator and Star Trek were obviously a design failure from the get go IMO even though their respective movies did great at box office. There's also a standard quality to be met by toy makers, which Hasbro and Mattel have been setting higher each time (exception to this are 3 inch DC superheroes). And some companies seem to be very stubborn to think they can get away with just marketing cheap looking design just as long as the movie it's based on is a blockbuster. Hasbro has been putting a lot of good quality product lately. They had an opportunity to make something more out of the ROC line. Unfortunately most of their product seemed to me like it was lacking originality such as lots of repaints and poor retooling, poor color palettes (the movie is responsible for some of it). I actually bought the first figures from ROC such as the Neovipers, Baroness, Snake Eyes, Cobra Commander simply because these were new unique looking figures. I threw my towel on the floor after wave 2 or 3 I think when they started to go wild on their repacks, and repaints, unfortunately Hasbro was unable to break from their ARAH prison for obviously many reasons. I'm not saying they did a bad thing, but it could have been done much in a much better way. Most of the items that saw release looked rather more like they were thrown at us, rather then say: "here we hope you can be proud and enjoy this incredible array of offerings we worked on". Not my feelings exactly. Some of them were indeed nice such as the Bench press soldier (I think that's what he's called, feel free to correct me ;D) but again my feelings is that these and a few others were just a few nice exceptions...
As some of you guys already know I've been collecting Star Wars for a long long time ago and recently stopped, so I have been able to enjoy both worlds for quite some time and make some personal observations about both brands. I have to admit that Hasbro was blamed a lot in the SW community for reissuing different versions of the same character since they relaunched the line in 1995. But these past years, they've been doing a fantastic job with the brand, offering a lot of brand new sculpts especially with the new Clone wars series, which forced them not to retool a lot of their past achievements as much. Hasbro should do the same thing with Gi joe and offer per instance more Renegades product. Despite it's downs, my love for Gi joe has survived ahead of Star Wars, and I would like to see the Joe brand shine again, and by "shine" I also mean that I hope that package design doesn't steer away again from the ARAH inspired look. POC is an obvious attempt in the right direction this time but has not reached its climatic stage IMO. If this line survives beyond Gi joe 2 and doesn't get tossed aside like 25th did when it made way for ROC, then I'll agree with many of you that Hasbro has indeed reached a new level of perfection. Nuff said.
Post by: bandonov on April 17, 2011, 04:28:19 PM
Let me know if you can get more then a 1000 timbits on this site, at the rate you are getting :timbits:
Post by: latinjoe22 on April 17, 2011, 04:33:31 PM
Quote from: "bandonov"
LJ on the Road to 100! :o Well said, +1!
Let me know if you can get more then a 1000 timbits on this site, at the rate you are getting :timbits:
I don't think so...Olyeller was only able to get -999 Timbits so I think that the 3 digits are as high as the Sky flies high!
Post by: pdaat on April 18, 2011, 09:29:27 AM
The guys who put out Tron, Star Trek thought they could push their stuff out and get the same price point as the other leading brands (much like LJ has just said). Mattel DC 3.75 figs were cheaper, but at least they acknowledged that the figures were not as well scuplted or as articulated (and I have hunted down almost the entire line). In case anyone even cares, short of the GL movie figs, 3.75 DC figs from Mattel are dead as per my takls with Mattel reps at C2E2.
I stopped buying SW when they hit 9.99 and now buy for my kids in general BUT I wait for sales. Joes are already two bucks less - I can't see then going any lower. They are the best quality figs on the market, over MU ans SW.
They need to promote Joe hard or wait until CW slows down - that's the only way they will get the top spot they had in years past. SW is just too well loved by the public in general - no matter how people complain of raped childhoods.
Post by: BHMike on April 18, 2011, 09:53:47 AM
Quote from: "latinjoe22"
I don't think so...Olyeller was only able to get -999 Timbits so I think that the 3 digits are as high as the Sky flies high! :lol:
I just tested it. There's no limit.
Post by: bandonov on April 18, 2011, 10:03:13 AM
Quote from: "THE Mike™"
Quote from: "latinjoe22"I don't think so...Olyeller was only able to get -999 Timbits so I think that the 3 digits are as high as the Sky flies high!
I just tested it. There's no limit.
If that is the case, LJ will be the first to have this for there Timbit count!
(http://http://bp3.blogger.com/_SNYTkUoRBMo/R1oY39BwcjI/AAAAAAAAAAo/AE4X97aP37I/s200/infinity.jpg)
Post by: latinjoe22 on April 18, 2011, 01:16:41 PM
Quote from: "pdaat"
They need to promote Joe hard or wait until CW slows down - that's the only way they will get the top spot they had in years past. SW is just too well loved by the public in general - no matter how people complain of raped childhoods.
I completely agree with you. Gi Joe is supposed to be a pop culture thing, especially in the States. If that's the case, it's not getting the media attention it deserves. Hasbro should really work harder on making sure that the Gi joe movies, or whatever hits the general public benefits its image for the long term future. They've been taking too many chances IMO that have not contributed too well to the development. Like it or not, kids always seem to be influenced by their parents, one way or another. Hasbro has got to find a way of appealing not just to the newer generation but also bring back, as many, if not all, of the people who grew up collecting 12 inch Gi joe and 3 3/4 inch. Hasbro has been willing to do this so far, but seems to be adhering more to a Hit and Miss approach of the brand, constantly "rebooting" the series, instead of building on the strong foundations they already set (ex: 25th, POC). They need to set foot on the strongest elements of Gi joe and do what's best for the brand if it wants the franchise to be catapulted far into the future which every chance of surpassing its own expectations. They need not to be afraid of continue to release Joes that come in bright 80's colors like Airtight and Sci-Fi, while bringing a balanced amount of fresh new military concepts for new Joe and Cobra characters. But more importantly, they shouldn't release these cool figures for a limited time under pretext that it's only for the Celebration of Gi joe, and then turn their back on it to give preference to a Movie line per instance. A celebration shouldn't be a one time thing only, so give it all you got Hasbro.
Back then I could understand that as a kid, my parents couldn't buy me all the figures I wanted, and I did want them all to tell you the truth. So everytime I got a new Joe figure, I was in heaven. But now that I'm able to buy the new ones, I don't find it normal that I only want to pick and choose amongst the traditional and newer characters simply because I don't find most of them appealing (I even came not to like Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow as much anymore). And yet, I don't feel the celebration the way it should be, something big is missing. Is anybody else living the same dilemma as me?
EDIT: +1
to Pdaat
Post by: ARROW on April 18, 2011, 05:21:15 PM
Quote from: "latinjoe22"
Quote from: "pdaat"They need to promote Joe hard or wait until CW slows down - that's the only way they will get the top spot they had in years past. SW is just too well loved by the public in general - no matter how people complain of raped childhoods.
I completely agree with you. Gi Joe is supposed to be a pop culture thing, especially in the States. If that's the case, it's not getting the media attention it deserves. Hasbro should really work harder on making sure that the Gi joe movies, or whatever hits the general public benefits its image for the long term future. They've been taking too many chances IMO that have not contributed too well to the development. Like it or not, kids always seem to be influenced by their parents, one way or another. Hasbro has got to find a way of appealing not just to the newer generation but also bring back, as many, if not all, of the people who grew up collecting 12 inch Gi joe and 3 3/4 inch. Hasbro has been willing to do this so far, but seems to be adhering more to a Hit and Miss approach of the brand, constantly "rebooting" the series, instead of building on the strong foundations they already set (ex: 25th, POC). They need to set foot on the strongest elements of Gi joe and do what's best for the brand if it wants the franchise to be catapulted far into the future which every chance of surpassing its own expectations. They need not to be afraid of continue to release Joes that come in bright 80's colors like Airtight and Sci-Fi, while bringing a balanced amount of fresh new military concepts for new Joe and Cobra characters. But more importantly, they shouldn't release these cool figures for a limited time under pretext that it's only for the Celebration of Gi joe, and then turn their back on it to give preference to a Movie line per instance. A celebration shouldn't be a one time thing only, so give it all you got Hasbro.
Back then I could understand that as a kid, my parents couldn't buy me all the figures I wanted, and I did want them all to tell you the truth. So everytime I got a new Joe figure, I was in heaven. But now that I'm able to buy the new ones, I don't find it normal that I only want to pick and choose amongst the traditional and newer characters simply because I don't find most of them appealing (I even came not to like Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow as much anymore). And yet, I don't feel the celebration the way it should be, something big is missing. Is anybody else living the same dilemma as me?
EDIT: +1
Over the past 20 years, with toy industry/hobby magazines and internet sites looking at/following toy trends, GIJOE is a bit of an odd duck--and Hasbro has lamented this for years.
The problems with the brand actually started at it debut--back in the 1960's, when the retailers became skittish with the 12" military line as a result of the Vietnam war. Public perceptions play a far greater influencing role in marketing than many people ( and collectors) give it credit for .
War toys are especially susceptible to this because they tend to play off of real-life or historical issues, and feelings on those matters can turn in a heartbeat.
Superheroes, by contrast, represent an equally violent theme, but they are fictional characters with no basis in reality, and thus the fantasy about them can be controlled. Very few superheroes use guns, though more use knives and bladed weapons--very few are in what is considered the top-tier.
Characters like GIJOE are hip-deep in weaponry--and often its representations of REAL weapons. When real wars with real people fighting and dying happen.....toys as such tend to sour on the public. Its a bit too close to home for many.
Thus, at ANY time, GIJOE has a slight sour taste with the public because that lingering visual remains. Hasbro cannot control world events, and they'd be foolish to try and diminish the real-world history going on around us all. Instead they just try to endure it and address the military themes in other ways. That leads to a niche audience for the brand......people who can look the other way to the connotations that GIJOE can carry as a toy, and who can still see it for the military fantasy that it is.
That military fantasy is now the cornerstone of what GIJOE is: the very kid-simple conflict between the Joes and a largely faceless group of bad guys called Cobra. There's only so many ways you can market the same theme over and over again, and only so many ways the public will be willing to digest it.
That becomes the problem here: the retailers have to deal with the public stigma that is very real, and at the same time offer a brand that can be seen through VERY fickle eyes. GIJOE traditionally sells well at Christmas--mostly because that is when a lot of ( conservative, perhaps) consumers are actively looking for product in line with their beliefs--and they do buy.
GIJOE clears out of stores during Christmas, but doesn't do it at any other time of the year, and probably because there's very little incentive for consumers to chase the brand at any other time.
That means that less stock is ordered for 9 months of the year, than at those crucial 3 months at the end.
How do you market a toy that is so very easily seen as jingoistic in its theme? It worked in the post Lake Placid Olympics/Early Reagan years because the cultural trends at the time..........trends have NOT been prevalent ( except for very short periods of time) since then.
IMO, that is why the POC "Game Design/Metal Gear Solid" kind of theme seems to have struck such a chord for Joes. Its IS about conflict, and it IS current.........but its tangential too. Its a veiled association to popular games, more so than it is to current events, and thus it holds on to its place in the market despite having some very ugly conflicts all over the world being very much in the public eye.
But there is still only a limited audience to that. People STILL think its far too much about promoting violence ( just as, say, Disney is still seen as promoting what people think is sappy pap), and so a lot of people steer clear from it. I doubt anything can change such perceptions now.
Post by: latinjoe22 on April 18, 2011, 06:52:29 PM
for sharing.
Post by: latinjoe22 on April 20, 2011, 06:09:28 PM
Quote from: "bandonov"
LJ on the Road to 100! :o Well said, +1!
Let me know if you can get more then a 1000 timbits on this site, at the rate you are getting :timbits:
Well, stepped down from 100 to 99 for now. But you know the saying: "What goes up, must come down"
Post by: grunt 4 mvp on April 20, 2011, 07:13:34 PM
That said, you are back in the triple digits, good sir!