JoeCanuck

General Section => General Joe Talk => Topic started by: Pete The Greek on April 18, 2004, 08:05:01 PM

Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Pete The Greek on April 18, 2004, 08:05:01 PM: Well I went to the Toronto toy show today (I was bored and didn't go to any of them last year). The funny thing was I didn't go for JOE stuff but went to hunt down some McFarlane Toronto Maple Leaf figures (now I know where the all the Maple Leafs ones at TRU and Walmart went to in this area... scalperville :x Man was I pissed at the prices for them). Anyways, I talked to two of the dealers that I have known for while that sell GI JOEs at these shows. They both told me that GI JOE had already reached it's peak and is on on the decline in terms of interest in terms of vintage stuff. The last 2 years was a gold mine for them. But most collectors at the show today (according to the dealers) were only after the "cool" army builders and vehicles according to them. Funny I went through that phase a couple of years ago. I guess most people have either had their fill of the regular figures as that is what I really saw today. I don't think there were any figures in the rare category today. 3 years ago there were. I think ebay has caused more damage for local toy shows as a seller

So is the vintage nostaglia losing momentum? Or was it a case that the sellers really only had table scraps left? I guess people have got all the common figures they wanted by now. Kind of explains the trend I see on ebay where guys like Wild Bill don't sell or move. Storm Shadows and Snake eyes do. Army builders do. But I think the peak as been surpassed. It has happended with Transformers from what I have heard.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Stealth Viper on April 18, 2004, 10:15:35 PM: There was a toy show today? Damn, wish I would have known. :?

As for vintage losing momentum, I think that is due to the new stuff on the shelf. Why go to a dealer and pay $40 for the baroness when you can buy the newest incarnation of her for $9.99 and get a second figure to boot?

The only ones looking for the ARAH stuff now are the collectors like ourselves. The whole "buying it for my kids because its what I used to play with" market is gone because they can buy new gijoes in their local walmart.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Techno Viper T-17 on April 18, 2004, 10:20:04 PM: I think there could also another reason that contributes to this: burnout. I keep hearing about how older collector feel burnt out. We know that there is a lot of fly-by-night collector right now. They tend to burn themselves out very quickly, but unlike long time collectors, they don't come back after a break. That just leaves army building which seems to be the big thing right now.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Pete The Greek on April 18, 2004, 10:44:56 PM: I didn't find out about the show until late yesterday after seeing this

http://www.toy-ads.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ulti ... 8&t=003858 (http://www.toy-ads.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=003858)
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: BHMike on April 19, 2004, 09:09:57 AM: I went, and thought it was the first good Toronto show in a few years.

I'd have to disagree with the Joe market dying....
While I will admit, the army builders are the main things that sell (always have), I haven't seen any drop in interest in the other items - heck , just look at what I'm sold out of on my site.

With the other dealers (not sure who you mean), it could be a matter of them not being able to get anything 'new' in for awhile (old joe-wise).
I get items in every week..... lately alot of new stuff, but then again, in the last 4 years or so I've gained a huge reputation for dealing in Joes in Southern Ontario.......

Now Transformers on the other hand....... I'd say that was losing interest with collectors..... mainly becuase I don't get much in, so therefore I don't sell much of it...... I would assume other dealers would say there's no interest in Wrestling Toys as well if they didn't have much of it - or didn't deal in it........ yet it's one of my best sellers

G.I. Joe #1
Star Wars #2
Wrestling #3
Supplies #4
Bobbleheads #5
Video Games #6
Superheroes (mixed) #7
DVDs #8
He-Man #9
MIsc. Items #10

That would round out what sells best in here according to my cash register.
;-)
Mike
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Redmao on April 19, 2004, 05:25:25 PM: indeed army building is a growing thing, I think. As for the search of regular figures being down, I think its still high. Me I'm looking to get all the joes I had as a child. When I'm done I'll probably continue to by completing each year I guess
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Tattoo Shane on April 19, 2004, 06:44:49 PM: I know that locally Joe is a fairly slow market. I have met very few other GI Joe collectors here in town in relation to the amount of vintage Star Wars guys i know. Contrary to the online world, i think it's getting bigger here.

As far as things go online, i think there's an overall decline in vintage lines. I know the vintage SW market is really weird right now with rare, high end stuff hardly moving while silly prices are being paid for run of the mill stuff. I sure hope the GI Joe market isn't dying tho as i tink there's still a lot to be explored and a lot of info yet to be publsihed on several facets of the line.

I also think that areas like prototype/pre-production collecting hasn't even entered in most Joe collectors minds (as evidenced by the Dojo thread, no offence to anyone here but if that was a SW piece, people would lose their head's for it. ;) ). The foreign market is just starting to come into it's own and i think from there, you'll see some of the more interesting aspects of the hobby start to garner more attention.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Pete The Greek on April 19, 2004, 11:04:34 PM: Quote from: ""Tattoo Shane""
I also think that areas like prototype/pre-production collecting hasn't even entered in most Joe collectors minds (as evidenced by the Dojo thread, no offence to anyone here but if that was a SW piece, people would lose their head's for it. ;) ). The foreign market is just starting to come into it's own and i think from there, you'll see some of the more interesting aspects of the hobby start to garner more attention.

I have bought a hand full of "prototypes" and I am happy with them. But pre-production figures (i.e. unpainted ones), I won't touch. They don't do anything for me. But I like looking at them online from somebody else that has them.

As for foreign stuff, I rather keep the bandwagon light if you know what I mean. I don't need any more johnny come latelys to drive up the prices. But acmirro (another foreign collecter on various message boards) will probably agree with me statement...there is alot of ignorance towards the foreign GI JOE market. I have heard all the excuses and some them are pretty lame. The one that bugs me is that GI JOE is American and anything else made as GI JOE outside the USA is crap. Explains why Americans don't like hockey.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Tattoo Shane on April 20, 2004, 06:08:23 AM: Pete, are the protos you've bought modern or vintage? I'm also curious just what stage they're from if you won't touch pre-prod pieces?

I agree that there's far too much flag waving going on when it comes to foreign Joe collecting, or overall Joe collecting for that matter...it's one of the main reasons why i'm no where near as active in the Joe community as i am the SW one. I prefer the smaller boards where some of the better people in the hobby congregate. Some of the coolest looking and hardest to find figs aren't domestic, it's just a shame they're not respected as such.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Redmao on April 20, 2004, 08:08:08 AM: the flag waving is indeed a problem. Its mainly because american wont buy anything if the package is not only in english that we cant have all the waves here. If the package was by or trilingual from the start it might be more widely distributed, I think.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Pete The Greek on April 20, 2004, 09:41:29 PM: Quote from: ""Tattoo Shane""
Pete, are the protos you've bought modern or vintage? I'm also curious just what stage they're from if you won't touch pre-prod pieces?

Nothing old. I am not sure what category they would fall under but I got those cancelled Walmart figures of ebay.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Tattoo Shane on April 22, 2004, 02:30:22 AM: Yeah, i was interested in those as well...it'd be pretty tough to actually classify those ones. I definately think they're as close to production quality as one can get but seeing as how they're (at this point) technically unproduced, it's a sticky spot...i'd still go with calling them a First Shot i guess. There are a few of the Unproduced Droids figures that made it as as close to production as you could get ie. foot holes and dates, machine painted that are still called FSs just becuase they were never made. Interesting stuff indeed...
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Pete The Greek on April 22, 2004, 07:17:16 PM: With the Walmart cancelled parachute guys, I think they were going to be the final production guys. But when Hasbro pulled the plug on them, and based on past history with Hasbro and unproduced figures, they were probably going to be destroyed. Somehow this seller got a hold of a bunch of them.

And that ebay seller uses the term "prototype" and that is wrong term as proto means "one". The seller has sold a bunch of them, and the prices just drop each time one is posted on ebay.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Spillspleen on April 22, 2004, 08:37:12 PM: I think most collectors of G.I.Joe are my age...so around 30, give or take a few years (in my case give a few years). So using this age category you can see that most are now married, have kids and are saving for their retirement. So again in general toys are not that important, you might collect but the interest is dying or at least slowing. For me about two years ago I would drop a $100 a month on anything whether I needed it or not, now I am selective and will not spend anything unless I see something I need rather than want?.most of the time.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Redmao on April 22, 2004, 09:38:17 PM: you are so right. I'm there too. Last year it was like if I saw a cool looking figure I bought it. Now I'm more focused on what I'm buying. The more it goes the more narrow the field of interest gets figure wise.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: zedhatch on May 07, 2004, 08:19:04 AM: Pete that is such a great question. I will tell you that here in the US I noticed an initial thrust of joe collectors and it drop sharply after my first month. After that things died off and I was left scratching my head. I began asking customers what was going on, basics were that they were satisfied with thier collection and needed nothing more. I thought to myself that this must be why so many people tappered off. Also add in the crud we are getting lately (which in all honesty caused me not to pick up new joe stuff until someone grows a brain over at hasbro) and I can see where that statment would be made.

And mike, I would have to say the same for most part but for different reasons. G1 TF's have gotten sooooo expensive that it is impractical to buy now. SInce most collectors have finished up, I would say that it is extreamly hard to get rid of G1's. Unfortunatly in the backward town I live in that is all people want. WHat's worse is that you get some and then they say "I Have that one" :shifty:
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: BHMike on May 07, 2004, 11:03:14 AM: Quote from: ""zedhatch""
You guys just don't realize what we store owners go through :wink:

Some of them do....... the ones that have visted my store from this board do..... I have no problem telling them!
Mike
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Pete The Greek on May 07, 2004, 11:16:32 AM: If I was a store owner, I wouldn't buy any of the new stuff as Hasbro doesn't know what they are doing with GI JOE. I rather have mastercollector take it over. Certain US online stores got screwed by Hasbro late last year and this has caused problems. Plus how the heck did Canadians know VvV would be in Canada? Guys like Mike would have been screwed if they ordered it. Plus I don't think there is a large enough market for JVC as Hasbro fails to provide ads in the form of cartoons to create a buzz for GI JOE. Trust me, this worked in 1985 or I wouldn't be typing a message in thread regarding GI JOES if this wasn't the case. And thanks to Hasbro crappy VvV, I have started collecting other toy lines that have cool looking items like the TF Alternators.

As to the vintage collector question, another trend I am noticing on message boards as well is that most of the good traders that I dealt with are hardly active any more. They either got the stuff they wanted and/or started to have a family. I know one collector that is back online after 4 years because he had bigger priorities in life (i.e. a baby). In my case I have no family of my own to take care of but I have completed most of GI JOE collecting goals.

It also seems more bad traders are out there. This means to me we have reached the bottom of the barrel. It's not 1998 were there was very few people active in the trading game as compared to 2002. People are just after the HTF items now a days.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Redmao on May 07, 2004, 12:45:13 PM: sad enough... If it continues this way, I might stop buying joes after I get the few figures I'm after (1983 figures and those I had/wanted as a kid)
At least there's those special six pack to keep the falme burning a little
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Stealth Viper on May 07, 2004, 02:01:40 PM: Quote from: ""Pete The Greek""
It also seems more bad traders are out there. This means to me we have reached the bottom of the barrel. It's not 1998 were there was very few people active in the trading game as compared to 2002. People are just after the HTF items now a days.

I'll attest to that.

I have been screwed 3 times recently, and because of that I will only deal with people I have previously dealt with from this point on. Unless, of course the new trader wants to send first.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Collectorman on May 15, 2004, 12:58:10 PM: I know that I've cut back in what I've been buying. Mike can confirm this by how little I've been in his store lately...and I working maybe 10 minutes away.

Although my problem is mostly the money aspect (selling dildos doesn't pay all that well), there's also a limit to what you can buy. For instance, recently I've been planning a move to Nova Scotia. If I go, I'll be taking only what I can fit in my 2000 Toyota Corolla. A MIB Tomahawk isn't the smartest thing to pack into a car with limited space.

If you're starting to settle into a family life, or don't have someone close to you that you can share the hobby with (TMWOAN and She-Can always come to mind), than the collecting can hit a brick wall.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: AlleyViper on May 15, 2004, 02:25:17 PM: Quote from: ""Collectorman""
(selling dildos doesn't pay all that well)

I gotta ask, of all the places to move to, why Nova Scotia?
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Collectorman on May 15, 2004, 09:55:54 PM: Quote from: ""AlleyViper""
I gotta ask, of all the places to move to, why Nova Scotia?

Well, my old boss at the Stag Shop wants to open a branch store in Halifax. In that case, she would be deemed the Area Manager and she'd need to hire a store manager.

Also, I did 2 1/2 in college for radio broadcasting. I was screwed out of my diploma because of some real bad planning on the college's part and an unfortunate death of a faculty member. Anyways, it's impossible to get into radio in Ontario (I tried, believe me). I might be able to work something out down east.
Title: Has GI JOE reached it's peak for vintage collectors?
Post by: Mastermind on May 20, 2004, 11:19:44 PM: I sometimes wonder if the nature of the hobby isn't changing for a lot of people. In the beginning you had basically one group of people who bought the figures and vehicles and played with them. Next came the people who stayed with the line to the end and the people who, for their own reasons, got rid of everything. Those who took advantage of all the loose figures and vehicles floating around at that time, and who wanted the line to continue anyway it could, got the whole customizing ball rolling. As time went by the whole nostalgia aspect appeared and those who got rid of everything years ago suddenly wanted everything back. Prices started to rise, GIJoe became popular again and Hasbro re-released the line. Now, with the original RAH series, the new Joe VS Cobra series, the Mastercollector offerings every year, Ebay, customizers, older collectors vs kids, MOC people vs open everything, play or display, army builders, etc., the Joe line has become a lot of different things to different people. It's probably this lack of unity which keeps Hasbro guessing what everyone wants and why not everyone is happy when something new comes out. It probably also makes people who offer Joes on the secondary market cringe with fear because what one person will pay $500 for another wouldn't even give it a second glance.
Just my two cents.