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Author Topic: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.  (Read 8972 times)

g.ijoecollecter3400

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New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« on: August 30, 2013, 10:48:11 PM »

Was surfing youtube tonight and discovered the most wonderful and disconcerning news all @ once.

That Hasbro actually made a prototype back in 2011 of the U.S.S Flagg based on the Resolute cartoon.

Looking @ the pics of it, i do have to say, id does look very much like the new U.S.S Flagg that was in the cartoon.

Now the part that bothers me is,,,why Hasbro...? Why would you make the proto...And then not follow through to production..?

Was it just to get a feeler out there to see if anybody would actually buy it...?

I do have to bring up the point that: If they did put it into production, It not simply being a reissue of the vintage toy. Its  a completely different concept and completly different ship all together, ( similar in name only ) would it draw in more sales or less ?

Personally i think Hasbro is totally missing out on a big " cash crop " Buy not remaking it now!

Why..? Because:  They are doing so well with there modern stuff now a days. There finally getting back on track. ( How dissapointed would you have been if they would have released a horible attempte @ a U.S.S flagg in 2002 ? )

I mean they are definatly not going to get 100% of the ( vintage only ) joe collecters who already have one. But they would get close to 50% of those guys id say.

They would however have 100% of the modern collecters who want one and can afford it. And then that brings us to the point of how much the price would be for the new Flagg...? Look we know plastic is expencive to manufacture. But with all this recycling going on, one would think the price payed for plastic 30 yrs ago was much higher...( Can anybody confirm or deny this for me..? )

Anyway... I cant see that a new Flagg would bomb @ 400$ - 500$ taxes in, brand new sealed in box. As long as the size is as massive and as impressive as the original. And also we would obviously be getting a way more detailed version dont forget. So @ 500$ taxes in. That would probly be my limite. But truthfully id pay what price they would put on it. If your telling me they cant mass-produce a Flagg and sell it @ 500$ and there not making any money, something is wrong here ( very wrong ). Specialy with all the corners they are cutting now a days with some of the new vehicles. When you think about the loose Flagg going for 800$ - 900$ loose no box ( hopfully complete ). Wouldn't it be so much easier to trough down 400$ for a new one.

Id like to hear from some of you on this...( allthough i can imagine you guys probly already talked about this subject LONG before i ever got on the site )

How much would you be willing to pay for a new MISB U.S.S Flagg ( updated version )...?

And would you rather have it updated version of the original or the new concepte Flagg from the resolute cartoon...?

P.S. They could always give us the new Resolute version in stores for 400$ And then go nutz with a exclusive vintage reproduction for 600$. People would pay! Oh how they would pay.




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ARROW

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2013, 01:32:10 AM »

The reason this kind of thing isn't realized, are a related two-fold reasons:

One-- retailers don't want it.
Two--retailers don't think GIJOE, as a brand, has the clout (or public interest) to warrant such a large toy taking up space on their shelves. This when there are other brands that are far more popular and sell far better that DO warrant more self-space.
GIJOE takes up so little space in the pegs and shelves that offering a $400 ( or even a $200 or $100) toy that is about 3 feet long ( broken down in the box) would be ludicrous. It exceeds the "footprint" the retailers grant the brand on their shelves.
Also, large GIJOE sets have routinely undersold and mostly gone to clearance over the past 10 years. That is a trend that retailers do not ignore. The last time was the PITT set, which was not that popular.



That and the chronic observation that GIJOE is NOT a perennial line, but a seasonal one. It sells best as Christmas time, when parents and grand parents recognize the brand name when shopping for children. The rest of the year that consumer demographic just doesn't shop in the toy aisles. Collector demographics are not a consideration because there's not enough of us.

There's nothing that we as fans can do about this.
It's market forces at play, and retailer experience and intuition calling the shots.. Hasbro and retailers are also risk-adverse.
Sure, they'll do large sets for Star Wars--because Star Wars has a consumer audience easily 100 times that of GIJOE, on GIJOE's best day. GIJOE has multiple stigmas working against it--political slights, prior brand failures, weak movie promotion/performance, weak media tie-ins ( no animated cartoons). That and action figure brands all across the board are softening in sales.

It remains a enjoyed brand, but its not enjoyed anywhere near enough for sets like the Defiant, Flagg, or Terrordrome of old to be produced today. The largest we'll see from this point on is something like the Eaglehawk or the Skystriker.  That's it.

The prototype you likely saw was likely itself to just have been a concept piece. Toy makers, like Hasbro, throw a lot of stuff at the wall to see what sticks. They'll make a mock-up, show it to the retailers to see if they are interested in carrying it, and IF they get interest, it'll go into production.  Otherwise......the prototype is put away on a shelf and forgotten about.
The consumers DO NOT dictate production green-lights in something like this--it's the retailers that make that call.
Hasbro does not sell to consumers, they sell to retailers.  Retailers then sell to consumers. We do not factor into the equation at all.

Also, consider the "footprint" again; for a 3 foot long USS Flagg toy, means the shelf space can only fit maybe  one or two on the shelf space (endcap or any part of the aisle) at one time. They can stock.......what...........50 figures in 2-3 rows of peg space, and about a dozen smaller vehicles. in about half that footprint size.  At $10 a figure, and $20 a vehicle you'd be looking at 5 times the income with more visible product for sale in less space than a single showy toy takes up. And Hasbro PAYS the retailers for that space ( Walmart, TRU etc.) so they want the bag for their buck.

So, in a long-winded nutshell....that's why you'll NEVER see a USS Flagg at retail again.

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Zenith27

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2013, 03:25:04 AM »

GIJOE takes up so little space in the pegs and shelves that offering a $400 ( or even a $200 or $100) toy that is about 3 feet long ( broken down in the box) would be ludicrous. It exceeds the "footprint" the retailers grant the brand on their shelves.

Exactly. If you worked out profit per square foot at $100 it'd be the lowest in the store and use up valuable low shelf space (you need at least a few pieces of something that big low) for stuff kids can grab and wave at their parents 2 aisles over. $400 dollars though, that's a lot of profit.


It sells best as Christmas time, when parents and grand parents recognize the brand name when shopping for children.

And have a much larger budget for a large item.


Also, large GIJOE sets have routinely undersold and mostly gone to clearance over the past 10 years.
....
Sure, they'll do large sets for Star Wars--because Star Wars has a consumer audience easily 100 times that of GIJOE, on GIJOE's best day.

I keep seeing those expensive Star Wars sets on sale and they don't sell well either it seems.


Hasbro does not sell to consumers, they sell to retailers.  Retailers then sell to consumers. We do not factor into the equation at all.

That I will disagree with. Hasbro certainty listens to fans, especially fans with wallets. I collect MLP and they have released more adult fan items each year for the past 3. They share shelf space in the pink aisle in black boxes for high prices. It starts with one as a test and if it sells everyone makes money and more get released. I don't know if people bought a lot of Skystrikers but I'm having a hard time finding an Eaglehawk here in Vancouver, and this is in August, not near Xmas.


It remains a enjoyed brand, but its not enjoyed anywhere near enough for sets like the Defiant, Flagg, or Terrordrome of old to be produced today. The largest we'll see from this point on is something like the Eaglehawk or the Skystriker.  That's it.

I agree with you but if the Eaglehawk sells well watch next year they'll announce something bigger and maybe eventually get up to a Flagg and we'll look like idiots. We can only hope.
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latinjoe22

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2013, 10:38:18 AM »

P.S. They could always give us the new Resolute version in stores for 400$ And then go nutz with a exclusive vintage reproduction for 600$. People would pay! Oh how they would pay.

Sure, Most of us will say anything to try to convince Hasbro to get something as awesome as the Flagg back on the toy aisles but the truth is when that happens, most of us would rather swallow their own pride and wait for the item to go on clearance instead than to shell immediately 400$ on one. We'll then lit a 85 Flagg on fire and dance around it for hours, feasting on poutine and beer while we exchange amazing stories of the incredibly low prices we got on the new Flagg, and keep wondering for the next 50 years or so why Hasbro still won't make a Defiant... provided most of us still walk this plane of existance or have been re-cloned.
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g.ijoecollecter3400

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2013, 10:40:55 AM »

While ARROW does make a lot of good points about retail ( space ) situation to why we would never see the flagg @ retail again. I can not agree or disagree with his points. I can only point out that ( like ARROW said ) g.i joe takes up the least space of any other toy line out there except for maybe marvel universe, but they have 12 pegs of marvel universe and only 4 or 5 for joes. Anyway my point: Hasbro's re-tweeking of the skystricker made it possible to be packaged in a box close to three quarters the size of the vintage skystricker box. I have no doubt that the new eaglehawk will follow suite ( i dont have a vintage box vs. a modern one to compare so i don't know..? ) But id be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the new eaglhawk box will be again tree quarters the size of the original. So with g.i joe line taking up so little space in the store, i can't see why retailers wouldn't have the space for it..? ( the answer is they do easily have the space ) But you have to imagine the first question a retailer is going to ask himself is'nt '' do we have the space for it..? '' They always have the space there a retailer, thats what there space is for. But its the second question the retailer ask's himself. " Is it going to sell ? " Thats the question that kills our hopes. Sure we would all answer yes! Because where adult collecters with money. Now the question becomes, why dont they just do a very, very limited run of them, enough to satisfy the collecter market and not worry @ all about the general public/kids/christmas situation...? If they did that, they would satisfy 15% of there total market, And have a manufacturing process @ the ready if the demand is there in the future...?

I just wanted to go back and make on more point on the whole packaging of the flagg situation. With the way hasbro has been retooling the new vehicles to fit in the box better, im sure someone @ Hasbro can take a week out of there sheduale ( the time there probly using saying '' what can we make next so that 80,000 kids will want to buy it '' ) to figure out how to break down the flagg so that it fits in a box 60% the size of the old one.

This would be easy to accomplish. The answer cut everything in half so that it fits inside of itself in the box. Make the hull cut into 3 ? sections like the original ( that snap together ) from side to side . And the do it again from from front to back. Make those first 3 peaces snap together with 3 different peaces.
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BHMike

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2013, 10:42:14 AM »

$400 toys aren't at retail. Even with $400 Lego items, TRU tells you to order it online, or they can bring it in for you.

The best chance for Hasbro to make a U.S.S. Flagg is do it the Mattycollector way.

Allow pre-orders on their website, when enough pre-orders are made, then start production.

g.ijoecollecter3400

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2013, 10:47:42 AM »

$400 toys aren't at retail. Even with $400 Lego items, TRU tells you to order it online, or they can bring it in for you.

The best chance for Hasbro to make a U.S.S. Flagg is do it the Mattycollector way.

Allow pre-orders on their website, when enough pre-orders are made, then start production.

Well THEMIKE is right once again.  ;D...

This is the question we should be asking people; " If you could nut down 450$ for a flagg pre-order right now, would you do it ? "

And theres no garentee it gets made. You may just end up getting your money back in 2 years.
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latinjoe22

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2013, 10:48:25 AM »

This would be easy to accomplish. The answer cut everything in half so that it fits inside of itself in the box. Make the hull cut into 3 ? sections like the original ( that snap together ) from side to side . And the do it again from from front to back. Make those first 3 peaces snap together with 3 different peaces.

Now you're talking!

If it's the size that matters nowadays, why wouldn't Hasbro to try to re-invent the Flagg and separate it into 3 playsets or more? Now that's something I'd like to know from the company itself if it could be viable.

If only Hasbro Canada could answer such a question, that would be awesome, but their answers/ imput so far has been pretty limited in terms of quantity of information since their decisional power where production or creativity is concerned is also strictly limited or non existant.
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latinjoe22

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2013, 10:53:47 AM »

Well THEMIKE is right once again.  ;D...

The Mike has only been wrong ONCE that I know of  ::). But today he is absolutely RIGHT !  8)
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Zenith27

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2013, 11:49:36 AM »

I just wanted to go back and make on more point on the whole packaging of the flagg situation. With the way hasbro has been retooling the new vehicles to fit in the box better, im sure someone @ Hasbro can take a week out of there sheduale ( the time there probly using saying '' what can we make next so that 80,000 kids will want to buy it '' ) to figure out how to break down the flagg so that it fits in a box 60% the size of the old one.

http://www.yojoe.com/images/resize/w/MAX/vehicles/85/ussflagg/canada2.jpg
http://www.yojoe.com/images/resize/w/MAX/vehicles/85/ussflagg/canada3.jpg

Looking at this, I don't see them making the packaging much smaller. It's not the deck that's the problem but the bow, stern and superstructure. You can't really shrink them to the box is gonna have a minimum thickness.
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g.ijoecollecter3400

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2013, 01:59:28 PM »

That was my point. Instead of making one sold bow peace. Break it down into 3 seperate peaces. 1. left side of bow 2. center of bow 3. right side of bow. ( thats just for the back peace,  the bow ) Then you would have another 3 peaces that snap together to make the center of the hull.  And then another 3 peaces snapping together to make the stern ( front of boat ). Once you have all your 3 peaces of hull assembled, you then snap those 3 peaces together.  And the same could be done with the superstruckture, Instead of making one solid peace, How hard would to be to have to snap the walls to the floor and put it together yourself...? I mean really...?Its really not that hard of a retoolong job. They would just be simply cutting each peace in 3 and adding interlocking clips on the inside to hold it together. Sure it would leave miniscule lines in the hull where the peaces join together but, its on the bottom of boat anyway...who cares really...? If they where to make a new one i think the minor cracks where peaces join together would be the last of our worries. First of our worries would be affording it and FINDING it available! Look @ all the trouble people are going through for the new Eaglehawk. eh...?
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Zenith27

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Re: New u.s.s flagg prototype vs original.
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2013, 02:37:29 PM »

Sure it would leave miniscule lines in the hull where the peaces join together but, its on the bottom of boat anyway...who cares really...? If they where to make a new one i think the minor cracks where peaces join together would be the last of our worries.

I think my solution would be to make the pieces so they fit inside each other. I bet back in the day that wasn't cheap to design and now with 3D modeling it would be a lot easier.

I'm so tempted to model the various parts and machine them out of aluminum (I have access to such devices at work). A Flagg might be a bit much but, say, replacing missing missiles to start and having them painted to match the originals. Then move on to complete vehicle parts, you could redo how they fit together and use screws and not clips. Imagine a black anodized aluminum HISS... I'd even do away with a clear canopy, clear anodize it. Mmmmm. Want a red one? Done. Mmmmm. So expensive....
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