JoeCanuck
General Section => Off Topic => Topic started by: bandonov on March 28, 2011, 03:45:42 PM
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I found this artice while I was searching on the web and I thought....It is a bit old, but what a perfect topic for a discussion here...
http://www.articulateddiscussion.com/post/Scalped!-Interview-with-the-Enemy.aspx (http://http://www.articulateddiscussion.com/post/Scalped!-Interview-with-the-Enemy.aspx)
Scalped! An Interview with the Enemy
(http://http://www.articulateddiscussion.com/image.axd?picture=2010%2f1%2fScalpedBanner.png)
More often than toy-collectors would like, we find ourselves staring at row after row of lame characters on the pegs. And though we like to blame poor distribution and uninteresting character-choices, we can also add scalpers to that black list. They are a twisting thorn in our collective sides, it's bad enough that there will only be one Raven for every 10 cases of DCUC, but there is always a scalper somewhere willing to make you suffer even more. But is this pain justified? Can it be justified, much like war? Join us as we probe the brains of two successful scalpers, doing what they do best for different reasons.
Here we have two fine gentlemen who admit to committing what many in the toy-community consider a crime on par with murder. But there is no law against scalping, and some simply call it Capitalism. Though there are laws against certain practices involved with scalping, like making back-room deals with store-employees, there is no penalty for buying a mechanical hamster for $10 and re-selling it for $100. And by the way, I am totally kidding about the Raven short-packing, don't start mauling each other, please. We will refer to our guests as Biff and Moe... for their safety.
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Articulated Discussion: Kindly walk us through a typical day in the life of a toy-scalper. Try not to dwell too long on the ritual baby-sacrifices.
Biff: Sacrifices are appropriately done during "dead time" (around 2AM) and never children... they are too expensive.
Typical day is just like your average toy junkie, one that has a job anyway. You get up, get ready for work, grab some breakfast...usually on the road (Side note: McDonald's breakfast burritos are surprisingly filling!) and then off to work! You follow your plan hitting the stores in a pre-determined order (if you are smart about it). You gather up any and all goodies (if any) and take them to market (eBay). Some days you end up wasting an entire days time and come up with nothing, and some days you strike gold! You usually come up empty handed, or you break even for the day... Gold is rare these days, that is why I do not do it on a daily basis any longer. But if I ever see anything of value on the shelf when I'm in a store, I'll scalp it.
Moe: I hit Wal-Mart, Target, and Toys R Us each two or three times a week, either in the morning on my way to work or during my lunch break to see what they have in the lines I collect [Such as Transformers, Joes, Marvel Universe, and every now and then a Star Wars piece]. I frequent HissTank and a Transformer board where I learn what is out there, and what is rare/valuable. So if I'm looking for more Pit Commandos for my army and find a couple City Strike Snake Eyes I will grab those too. But I don't make a special trip to the store just to see if they have something "scalpable."
AD: Is having a spy working with you on the inside of the major retailers a necessary detail? Is it easier to run a scalping operation solo?
Biff: Not necessary, the people on the inside that scalp just steal the items and eBay themselves anyway, and with the little amount of money in it, it's best as a solo operation.
Moe: I don't have any spys that work at the stores but I often see the same group of buyers (don't know if they are scalpers, collectors, or a mix like me) many mornings and some of them have long conversations with the employees. Since I try to get in and out so I can get to work I don't have time for that and don't like to be associated with some of the guys who get a little too carried away and give the rest of us a bad name. I know if something isn't on the shelf then I'm not getting it so I don't bother to ask. I do believe that some employees at my local TRU hold stuff back to scalp themselves.
AD: How do you choose what toys to scalp? What do you do when you can't sell all the figures you bought and don't have the receipt anymore to return them to the store?
Biff: The collectors choose what toys I scalp... if they are buying it on eBay and I can find it, then that's what I buy. You have 90 days to use a receipt, stay organized and keep your receipts so that you can return them properly.
Moe: Any time I buy at retail I keep the receipt in a drawer so that I can return it later. I also have the benefit of having a son, 3 nephews, and two nieces of various ages so some items I buy can be gifts if they turn out not to be worth much on the aftermarket.
Experience is a good teacher. Target exclusives go on clearance if they stick around long enough. So I will buy some at full price and sell them "at-cost" but save my receipt. Then if I find it on clearance later I will return on the original receipt so now I've made a profit. If I see something small on clearance at Target for 30% off, I know it will get to 75% off if I wait so I will hide it in the store until it drops. If it is a larger item I will buy it, wait a couple weeks to return it and buy it again for the lower price.
Of course there is the "big one that got away" too. I remember walking through a Wal-Mart when the Dark Knight toys first hit. I wasn't into them but I saw this thing called a Movie Masterpiece Joker and they had two of him on the peg. I thought to myself how these might be worth something since Heath died and all the hype but then I figured "Nah, I wouldn't find two on the peg if it was highly desirable" so I put them back and left. Within two weeks they were going for around $200 on ebay, damn. Of course, now you can find him at Big Lots, funny how the toy market works sometimes.
My best score ever was a [2002 ToyFair] Silver Darth Vader exclusive. I thought it looked butt-ugly but people on message boards were going apeshit over wanting one. HasbroToyShop had some on their site after the convention and I bought my limit of 2 for $5 each. One went for about $200 on ebay and the other went for about $150 a week after that.
Speaking of worth, since I have a regular job and a family it has to be worth the time and effort for me to scalp. If I'm only going to make a buck or two then I usually won't bother. The exception would be if I earn something like rewards points or a gift card for my purchase. My TRU had the deal where you could buy 2 joes for $10 and you got a $10 gift card if you spent $30, several people on Hisstank discovered you could buy just 4 figures at TRU for $20 and still get the $10 gift card. I earned 5 or 6 gift cards that week and sold most of the figures on the 'Tank for $5 each.
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AD: Some view your kind as an evil plaguing the toy-community. Some (mostly you guys, heh) say you're just an average citizen getting by in this capitalistic country as best they can. How do you define "scalping"?
Biff: I usually view those people as a stupidity plaguing the community. Scalping is jealous word, used by jealous people, who do not have the same opportunity to do what you do. The jealous people who complain about scalping are the same hypocrites who will buy items at retail to stash away for twenty years to sell to try to put their kids through college... which would be "Future-Scalping". (BTW the toys today will never put your kids through college tomorrow...because everyone who wants them is collecting them and the future value is extremely low...don't collect for money... first it doesn't work, second you become a scalper yourself). If you have ever bought and sold ANYTHING, you are a scalper. If you buy more than one of ANY item, you are cheating another collector from having it, "Army Builders" and "Hoarders" are FAR FAR FAR worse than any scalper because they are NOT sharing with other collectors for profit or otherwise.
Moe: As you can tell, I've done some scalping but not nearly to the degree that others out there are doing it. I've probably missed out on more stuff I wanted because of scalpers then I have ever tried to scalp. My wife gives me crap about my spending so I see it as a way to help fund my hobby and make up for the extra I pay sometimes for a piece I want. That is what I meant when I said Ebay has been both a blessing and a curse to the hobby.
Some guys do defend it as a "business" and say they have a right to make a profit. I don't look at it that way. As a buyer, whether you make a profit or not does not concern me. You robbed me of a chance to buy something at retail to line your pocket, get a real job. If we were talking about something like milk, the government would end it in a heartbeat. Similar to how it is illegal to scalp concert tickets in most places. The problem with toys is how do you distinguish between a scalper or someone just selling a piece of their property they no longer desire?
AD: What's your opinion of re-packers and have you ever worked with or caught one in the act?
[Nightmare's Note: Re-packers buy a figure, open the package, and replace it with a different, usually crappier figure, then return it to the store]
Biff: Re-packers are thieves and thieves should die. In my experience, re-packers are usually cheap-ass collectors and not scalpers. A professional scalper will never resort to theft. If you can not buy it and profit from it as it is, you leave it on the shelf. It is not worth the time of a scalper to repack and return. But certain cheap-ass collectors would rather steal than pay retail or secondary market prices.
Moe: I've never done it to sell but I have done it. I have a bunch of single carded vipers with the crap hands and then Hasbro went and released that 5-pack with the chrome head and fixed hands. I was afraid switching the heads for the chrome would be easy to spot so I didn't do it and wasn't really that excited about the chrome anyway, but I did buy several packs to swap the hands and then returned them.
My favorite repack ever (I saw it, I didn't do it!) was Firefly versus "The Breakers" at TRU. Someone had bought that pack and replaced the four greenshirts with four Breakers! I'm guessing they had bought a bunch of the ram/flight-pod packs and had too many Breakers.
AD: Have you ever had to wrestle a City-Strike Snake Eyes out of the trembling hands of a frightened child? Ever had to fight someone over a toy because you were buying 10 Powergirls and they just wanted one?
Biff: Again, in my experience, cheap-Ass collectors are usually the ones who would stoop to this level, because of their jealousy. They are so irritated that they can never find what they want, they feel "entitled" to get it any way they can... by repacking or by beating up children.
In addition, NOT all collectors are "Cheap". I am a "scalper" (I refer to myself as an honest American businessman). I am also a collector. I started making a business out of toys to support my plastic crack habit. I have a VERY large toy collection and would never have it, if I were flipping burgers somewhere.
Speaking of flipping burgers...these jealous hypocrites like to tell scalpers to go get a "real-job". I challenge each and every one of those lazy, cheap-ass, hypocritical, jealous, future scalpers to do what I do for a living. They don't know what work is. They would not have the patience to supply and manage an eBay store. 1 or 2 items does not make an eBay store. Try 10,000 items, now you have a "real job."
All of this jealous BS aside...the big question on most collectors minds is why do we buy at retail and not go factory direct? I tried going factory direct. I offered Hasbro 1 million dollars per year for their product and here is the answer(s) I received from a "live" Hasbro sales representative during a phone conversation in 1995. (BTW I did not start scalping until after this conversation with Hasbro)
•A). "Your one million dollars annual does not compare to the billions that the box stores give us. We can not offer you the same price because you would be buying less."
•B) "Your wholesale price will be $4.99 each. (Retail price at the time = $4.99 @%@@&*^?). AND we can not guarantee new stock. For instance...you order a case of Star Wars 3.75 characters in October, we could fill that order at any time within 12 months and we could send you old stock from 6 months ago. AND... you have to carry a percentage of other Hasbro products such as Mr. Potato Head and Sorry."
In closing... Scalping IS a legitimate business. The secondary market IS a market. All of your bitching and complaining and jealous antics will never do anything to stop these two things from being fact. If your concern is where we buy our items from, then perhaps you should take the time to fight the problem appropriately and more effectively by writing Hasbro and Mattel and NECA and all of the other corporations. Tell them that you would like to have the "choice" to purchase between small business and large business. For that choice to be made by you the consumer, those companies would have to give small businesses the same opportunities and prices that big businesses receive. You could also tell them that until they support the small businesses of America that you will refuse to purchase their product. Unfortunately, I don't believe that enough support would come from the average collector to make a difference, most would find it easier to complain rather than fight to solve the problem.
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If you're wondering why these two individuals were interviewed separately, it's because I find that most scalpers, like most super-villains, don't get along for various reasons. They have different morals, they don't like competition, whatever it is, it's just best to live and let die, har har. Hopefully you've all learned a few things from this, some people scalp to pay college dues, some make a living off of it, it really isn't for the rest of us to tell them what not to do. But honestly...why toys? Can't they go scalp metal t-shirts or lipstick instead? I hear Rosy Peach #4 is to die for!
And here's a fun bonus fact I'd like to add:
The Origin of the Term "Scalping"
In the early days, when the Puritans began settling in this land, they would often trade with Native Americans for valuable resources like furs and food, or even trinkets like jewelry. The early settlers had never seen such jewels, with all the rare stones and colors, and the Native Americans realized very quickly that their jewelry was unique, and valuable to these White Folk.
So, the NAs began raising the costs of their items. It got to the point where the NAs would only trade their rarer goods for something equally rare from the White people, mainly their blond hair. So, the White people would trade their blond hair, which was rare and strange to the Natives, for the NAs trinkets, and this became known as "scalping"
(By the way, I totally made that up.)
-DrNightmare
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WOW, It was interesting to see the point of view of a couple of "Scalpers".
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Meh. They try to hard to defend themselves. I've sold stuff on Ebay (Chrome Snake anyone?) and some of those Wave 3 alpha vehicles but I don't see it as scalping. Anyone from our boards that needs help I'll help. I also traded a set to a guy in the US for the Target vehicles that came out a few months ago.
By calling anyone who has sold something on Ebay a scalper they are really showing how hard they are trying to justify their "hobby".
That whole rant about Army Builders being selfish is a total crock. Army builders are not trying to hurt the market. They just love it to a point where they want to have a great display. I army build in sets of 3. If anything, it shows Hasbro what we want and every now and then they throw us a bone and bring out an army builder wave. If they were smart Hasbro would make more army builder waves for the on line stores.
Sure, a step up from figure swappers, but not much.
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I have a very frank, pragmatic and straightforward opinion on "scalpers" and swappers (and pertaining directly to the article above), that I have posted previously on other forums.
And some folks don't seem to like that sort of thing.
I offer that caution before I jump into the topic wholesale and restate my POV--because sometimes people just want the "party-line" toed to. Please, if anyone is easily offended by a frank discussion, let me know over the next couple of day so I can just steer away from it. If I do not hear a nay, I'll post later in the week.
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I offer that caution before I jump into the topic wholesale and restate my POV--because sometimes people just want the "party-line" toed to. Please, if anyone is easily offended by a frank discussion, let me know over the next couple of day so I can just steer away from it. If I do not hear a nay, I'll post later in the week.
Oh Boy! I can't wait to read your post!
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I offer that caution before I jump into the topic wholesale and restate my POV--because sometimes people just want the "party-line" toed to. Please, if anyone is easily offended by a frank discussion, let me know over the next couple of day so I can just steer away from it. If I do not hear a nay, I'll post later in the week.
Oh Boy! I can't wait to read your post!
Seriously......I have responded to this kind of topic, to the above quoted article before on the TNI forums, and the knee-jerk hue and outcry from some of the ding-bats there was..............vocal.
Some folks understood my POV, some folks just locked up their brains and would not accept ANY POV other than "scalpers are evil, and they must all die"--and it got fiery.
So before I jump in, I want to take the pulse of the group and see if there's any problems with that sort of thing so I can AVOID the same conflagration.
If anyone says NO, then I'll refrain--out of respect for the group as a whole.
I'll tip my hand and say my opinion is a stab at attitudes and perceptions of scalpers and what I see as being the psychology behind the scalper problem. Its not my aim to push buttons, but I do take a provocative stance. No-one is innocent in this.
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ARROW, you can post your POV!
(http://http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/2/3/a4022281-b593-4d13-a376-25335e858206.jpg)
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ARROW, you can post your POV!
(http://http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/2/3/a4022281-b593-4d13-a376-25335e858206.jpg)
If the HOFFSTER approves, so does LJ!
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1) I don't see any harm in army-building
2) Toy switching = stealing
3) I don't care about scalpers, but the justifications for their actions were pretty weak...
Did I once buy 2 Optimus Primes with the full intention of reselling one to pay for the other....Yes
Do I have a Kamakura that I bought for $3 because I thought it might be worth something....Yes
Do I occasionally observe ritual baby-sacrifices...Yes. (see article)
If that makes me a scalper, I'm shocked.
I've also picked things up for people at cost, and routinely walk away from toys I know have a higher 'market' value...
People can do what they want short of breaking the law. I don't buy new toys, let alone re-sell them, so it doesn't affect me.
I see it all the time with vintage stuff too. People buy cheap stuff from the forums just to list it higher...is that scalping? Is a store that buys a collection and lists it with higher prices scalping? I don't think so.
In my mind, scalping is a calculated, consistent, deliberate act, that has nothing to do with collecting.
The article was a good read. Thanks.
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Here we go... You had to bring the HOFF on this did you... Now I have to talk to you know who now....
I gave this thread to MJ to read...
(http://http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a9495cd3970b-500wi)
He laughed at the comments made in the article....
(http://http://assets.portfolio.com/companies-executives/MichaelJordan-Large-Landov.jpg)
Now he is waiting to see what eveyone else has to say...
(http://http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nXPfVU2dDOw/S6ElMdGO0SI/AAAAAAAABRY/KAYHBb0TZ8o/s400/jordan.jpg)
But MJ remembered that some people have opinions that are not always with the rest of us....
(http://http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NEHP8QxQcX4/S6FGankiOwI/AAAAAAAANRk/y1tKNvDnjM8/s320/jordan.jpg)
MJ is ready to pinch people for not posting there comments
(http://http://mediaoutrage.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/michael-jordan5.jpg)
Then MJ read 5h4rK's comments and laughs has usual...
(http://http://i.huffpost.com/gen/256031/thumbs/s-SCOTTIE-PIPPEN-MICHAEL-JORDAN-large300.jpg)
Now MJ is ready to read some real juicy posts...
(http://http://main.omanobserver.om/files/imagecache/250x250/rbimages/1268937030033954100.jpg)
Now you making MJ wait...
(http://http://media.nj.com/realtimesports_impact/photo/michael-jordan-bobcats-game-7f41dc833fcfe4a4_large.jpg)
Now MJ will Slam Dunk over you for making him wait.
(http://http://videos.brokencurve.com/0d1ba8ef09cd4deba7e03afc7408460e.jpg)
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What I find funny is the so called journey the "toy scalper" goes through each morning. It's the same journey I have read online aka visiting stores every day when they first open in the morning to find to so called hot items to sell. To me, it's a waste of time and effort. I blame the toy companies for creating this crap in the first place.
The worst one is McFarlane and their sports variants. Just imagine Hasbro made a figure variant and only a 100 were produced. Well, this is what McFarlane is doing, mostly recently with a Wayne Gretzky burger king variant. They did this for a Mario Lemieux figure that is selling in the 600 dollar range. It's a joke but what can you do.
I have a problem with figure swappers. That is thief.
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Hey ARROW,
Jokes aside, if you have an opinion... Share it. We need different opinions to make things interesting here. Otherwise jokers like 5h4rK and myself have to fill in the gaps with our stupid slapstick humor!
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Hey ARROW,
Jokes aside, if you have an opinion... Share it. We need different opinions to make things interesting here. Otherwise jokers like 5h4rK and myself have to fill in the gaps with our stupid slapstick humor!
I will but I gotta write it out and that will take time, and I have a deadline at the moment. It'll be a couple of days....
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here's my two bits. I don't have a problem with people looking to purchase something with goal of reselling it to make money. This is capitalism. I do have a problem with the arrogance of people who do it and mock collectors for lamenting the scalper. I think that part of the fun of collecting is the hunt. To be beaten to the goal by a guy purchasing the same item you were after is annoying, but hey, that's life. If scalpers wanna laugh at us about it, let'em. The problem is that there IS a market out there. Whether you wanna blame Hasbro (or any company) for low runs, crappy distribution, or just the sweetness of a specific mold or item, the fact remains that there are people that will still pay for this. Don't believe me, take a look at Evilbay and Craigslist. Supply and Demand. Since there is a demand for something, someone, somewhere will find a way to supply it. And if they make a profit, so much the better, for them. Its not right or fair, but neither is life. There is a certain sense of schadenfraude when scalpers buy up a bunch of stuff and have to dump for the same price they paid, or less, in order to move it. It does happen from time to time (karma, anyone?) But the bottom line is there is a demand, which will be filled. If we were all honorable (and by this, I mean, all mankind) this wouldn't be a problem. But alas, these are times where everyone is out for their own gratification.
as Dennis Miller would say, "that's just my opinion, I could be wrong!"
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The one thing that troop builders and scalpers do have in common is that they drive up demand for certain figures. If I troop builder or scalper clears the pegs of an Alley Viper, other local collectors will be forced to hit other sources to get that figure. They may have different motives, but the end result for some is the same.
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There are so many degrees of scalping we can start listing them, and we'll most likely end up pointing figures at each other, even though we're collectors at the very base. Yes, it is possible for anyone to adopt momentarily or during a phase a scalping practice, but that doesn't make us wear the label "scalper" forever". I do believe that scalping takes its more definitive form when the one that is scalping has no other relationship that the money making process involved in it. In other words, I think a real scalper in our line of hobby is someone who doesn't collect at all and just plainly does it for the money. It's hard for me to tell by the looks of someone emptying an entire toy section, who is one and who is not. IMO the best way to fight the problem with not finding your shortpacked figures at your local store, is to try harder than the scalpers themselves, and outrun them. Obviously, they feel that we are complaining and we don't do enough to find our toys already. They obviously know they are doing something that pisses off many collectors, so some of them take the defensive mode and respond in the more immature and irresponsible way possible: they take it out on the fact that we might be jealous. That's like putting everyone in the same basket. Not everyone is jealous, everyone is mainly just pissed. So what are we going to do about it? We fight in the best way we can: we stick together. We form part of a community like this one, and we use the knowledge on this site, by sharing our findings and picking up what we can so that we have a better chance to find what we're looking for. Agreed, scalpers or people scalping have the same accessibility to all the cool information we do. But while most of us can run the race for others, there's always a good chance scalpers will be outrun and not always find what they're looking for.
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I am no saint either. I blew out alot of Alpha wave 3 sets into the US. However, it all honesty it started as a way to stop others from marking up the $8 to $50-70 by flooding the market rapidly.
Maybe even peeved off someone on this board doing it, but I know I don't like getting hosed like that.
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I am no saint either. I blew out alot of Alpha wave 3 sets into the US. However, it all honesty it started as a way to stop others from marking up the $8 to $50-70 by flooding the market rapidly.
Maybe even peeved off someone on this board doing it, but I know I don't like getting hosed like that.
And neither am I. I even tried to sell my two doubles of the ROC Alpha wave 3 vehicules (polar shark and lava pod) that Bandonov good willingly helped to find for me, but I had no immediate success. All vehicles did go to fellow members here. I only kept for my nephew one boxed polar shark and one loose Lava pod which curiously... became his favorite toy, even though it is not chromed :wink:
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I have no problems with scalpers as I never pay more then what I'm willing to spend. Sometimes that sucks because I would really like a particular item but when the money is gone, its gone.
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Exactly B. No one is holding a gun to your head.