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Author Topic: AFA Grading, love it or hate it. ?  (Read 6174 times)

darth cujo

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Re: AFA Grading, love it or hate it. ?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 04:20:53 PM »

AFA, one of the big debates that seems to spark rage! Just like the loose vs carded collecting debate. :)

I don't own a single graded item in my collection. Having said that, I totally see the merit in the service. But with that comes the exploitation and the twisting of it into something it really wasn't meant to be. At least in my opinion. Obviously it's a business, and that is a primary purpose of the company. But the niche it filled that I could see myself using it for is for actually verifying the authenticity of something. For example, if I wanted to buy a vinyl caped Jawa, or a straight arm snake eyes. In either of these cases I might not be confident enough in my knowledge of the item to truly authenticate it. Sure I can read online about all the things to look out for, but how many vinyl caped Jawas have I held in my hand in my lifetime? Maybe two. Therefore, as an insurance policy of sorts, I might look to AFA to help. So it totally makes sense to pay a premium for AFA graded items because you're paying for that authentication service and that peace of mind.

Perhaps this is the world we live in though, where there are a lot of collectors lacking confidence in authenticity. This is understandable when you're buying online. How can you really authenticate an item over the internet? So there is enough demand from folks wanting authenticity, and I guess they're willing to pay that much of a premium for that peace of mind. I'm not, but that's what the market it. What I don't understand is the people who buy things just for the sake of it being AFA graded. If you have the knowledge and ability to know if something is legit, the service is essentially useless. Which is also why, for the most part, grading modern items baffles me. Completely pointless.

Anyway, I think AFA has merit, but unfortunately the market has pushed it into something a bit absurd.
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g.ijoecollecter3400

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Re: AFA Grading, love it or hate it. ?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 09:02:29 PM »

AFA, one of the big debates that seems to spark rage! Just like the loose vs carded collecting debate. :)

I don't own a single graded item in my collection. Having said that, I totally see the merit in the service. But with that comes the exploitation and the twisting of it into something it really wasn't meant to be. At least in my opinion. Obviously it's a business, and that is a primary purpose of the company. But the niche it filled that I could see myself using it for is for actually verifying the authenticity of something. For example, if I wanted to buy a vinyl caped Jawa, or a straight arm snake eyes. In either of these cases I might not be confident enough in my knowledge of the item to truly authenticate it. Sure I can read online about all the things to look out for, but how many vinyl caped Jawas have I held in my hand in my lifetime? Maybe two. Therefore, as an insurance policy of sorts, I might look to AFA to help. So it totally makes sense to pay a premium for AFA graded items because you're paying for that authentication service and that peace of mind.

Perhaps this is the world we live in though, where there are a lot of collectors lacking confidence in authenticity. This is understandable when you're buying online. How can you really authenticate an item over the internet? So there is enough demand from folks wanting authenticity, and I guess they're willing to pay that much of a premium for that peace of mind. I'm not, but that's what the market it. What I don't understand is the people who buy things just for the sake of it being AFA graded. If you have the knowledge and ability to know if something is legit, the service is essentially useless. Which is also why, for the most part, grading modern items baffles me. Completely pointless.

Anyway, I think AFA has merit, but unfortunately the market has pushed it into something a bit absurd.

Thats what i was saying when i talked about a 300$ cobra officer becoming a 850$ cobra officer overnight just because it got an 85 grade from AFA. In all logic it should have become a 300$ + whatever it cost to grade it cobra officer, thats all. Just to give the seller a better ability to get his 300$ for his toy, to have it absolutly proven authentic, no question.

Where it all went wrong was all it took was that one guy ( who could afford it ) to pony up 850$ for it, and all hope was lost from then on. Not just for that figure but all other vintage 85 graded items. And it funny because it seams like there is a unwritten rule that if your item gets an 8 grade double the value plus add the cost of grading. If it gets 8.5 triple it. If it gets 9 multiply by 5. And a 9.5 is multiplied by a minim. of 10.

And did you know by law in Arizona if you have a 10 GEM mint action figure, don't matter witch one. You have the right to ask the price tag of: There first born son.   ;D
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ARROW

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Re: AFA Grading, love it or hate it. ?
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 10:24:07 PM »

I dislike slabbing ( as I have doubtlessly made clear) but I think the hobby leaped towards ruination with the various published prices guides.  Those set the snowball tumbling downhill.

I remember selling off some of my collection at a then-local toy show. Had a table, a good mix of stuff.....but I wasn't sure how I exactly wanted to price the stuff. When I sell at such shows, my goal is not to profit at all costs.......it's to clear the table, to not have to haul the stuff home. Still, making some money is always nice, so on one occasion I used a Wizard price guide, and when asked about an item I had, I consulted it to get a ballpark of what to ask for. In sight of the curious customer.

Big mistake.
The two fellows declined to buy that time, but about 30 minutes later they came back with their own price guide......and they started shopping at my table.
And worse, they started challenging my prices. Something that I marked as being $30 was "only $20, according to the guide" and so on. I explained that I was not a dealer, that the stuff was from my own private collection and just being cleared out. 
They didn't listen.  They picked out about 5-6 things, consulted the guide on every one and offered me the "guide price" which was less than what I had marked on the items. They thought the price guide was some sort of all-abiding rule of law for pricing stuff.  of course, I didn't accept their offers, which didn't sit too well with them. They demanded I take their lower offer and TOLD ME I HAD TO BECAUSE THE GUIDE SAID THAT IS WHAT THE PRICES WERE!!

Oy vey!
 In the midst of my going cross-eyed with these bone-heads, the dealer beside me leaned over to them and told them the price guide is just a "suggested" value and no-one is obligated to buy OR sell at the listed prices.  Well, that rattled around in their heads like a pin ball, and they let the stuff on the table and wandered off......but they consulted that thing at every other stop they made in that room.

Just nuts.

I don't discourage anyone from seeking a bargain, nor do I think anyone should be criticized for asking a king's ransom for something either---to each their own.  But with such arrangements, trying to goad the price up or down because some arbitrary book or agency calls the tune....uh-uh. I don't accept that.

That same toy show, I got both heat and kudos from fellow dealers for selling a then-hard to find toy: a Talking T-2 Terminator--the one with the half robot, half-Arnie head. I had bought the thing for $29 or something, off the toy store shelves at the time.  They quickly became rare.  One dealer was asking $200 for his in the box, mine was loose for $50. A little kid and his dad were nosing around and the kid took a shine to this thing. He would look at it, wander away, come back and look some more......and so on.
I finally asked him if he was interested in it, and he said he only had $20.
I said..........hmmmmn. Asked him if he was stuff browsing with his dad. He said he was, so I told him, when they were done to come back and see me.

So, about an hour later he comes back, and I asked him if he was ready to deal.  He told me he had only $15 then, but had a couple of things in his hands.
So I asked him a bit about Terminator, if he was a fan and stuff and he gushed about the characters and the movie and stuff. Obviously a fan.
So I decided what to do: I asked how much he had left?
He told me $15.
I asked him if he and his Dad had had lunch yet. He said they were going to eat after the show.

Then I hit the kid with my line: "I tellya what I'm gonna do....."....

You got $15? He goes "yeah..."  I got how about $12?
He looks puzzled.
I go " Okay, okay.......how's about about $10??"
He's confused, looks at his dad, Dad looks at me-I grin.
"Okay, okay.......you drive a hard bargain young man, how about $7??"
Other dealers are watching now. The kid knows he's being put on, but is unsure.
"Alright, ( with a big dramatic sigh) ya beat me to the ground........how's about $5? Ya got a five dollar bill??"  He does.

"Sold to you for $5!"
Dealer beside me smiles, shakes his head. Dad is impressed, thanks me. Kid takes his new toy in hand in awe. I tell the kid: "but there's just ONE condition!!" He looks at me.
" You have to take your dad out to lunch with the $10 you have left, as thanks for him bringing you here today. Deal?"
Deal, he shakes on it. They both go off happy as clams.

Later the dealer with the $200 boxed Terminator across the room( still unsold ) walks over to my table and sarcastically "thanks me for undercutting him".
Okay, so maybe I did, but I think he missed the bigger point.

There is no AFA grading that can make a deal or an item like that more "valuable" to a collector than someone selling something heart to heart.

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g.ijoecollecter3400

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Re: AFA Grading, love it or hate it. ?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2013, 01:49:26 PM »

We should get together and make our own price guide for AFA only figures.

" oh you have 83' scarlett graded a solid 8 "  " guide says 93.50$, sell it to me for that "  ;D
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Pete The Greek

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Re: AFA Grading, love it or hate it. ?
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2013, 11:37:19 AM »

Never been a fan of AFA.  The grades I can live with.  But it's the prices that people come with after the grading process that has never made any sense.  Also AFA is completely useless for foreign items, where the rarity will often outweigh the grade. 

Back in around 2005, it was reported that AFA graded a resealed item, that was sent by some one on purpose to see what would happen.  Make of that what you will.

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