Post by: Radio Guy on August 09, 2010, 10:47:50 PM
Bear in mind that although I am a big fan of the ARAH line, I do not have every figure and every accesory memorized. When I ask a dealer if the figure is complete and he says "yes", I believe him. If I ask if they are all original parts with no accessory pack stuff and he says "yes", I believe him. In this case, I was lied to twice. One figure was missing his backpack, and the other has a helmet that is not the original.
Not much i can do about this now, as the dealer was from Quebec. Just wondering if you think the dealer is at fault for misrepresenting, or should I be walking around with Bellamo's guide the whole time to ensure I don't get screwed?
Post by: 5h4rK on August 09, 2010, 10:51:07 PM
Post by: roshan on August 09, 2010, 10:55:07 PM
Post by: NeoDragonKnight on August 09, 2010, 10:56:23 PM
Post by: BHMike on August 09, 2010, 10:57:33 PM
Quote from: "Radio Guy"
So, i picked up a lot of the stuff at the Can Joe Con that I'm very happy with...that being said, I just discovered that two pieces that I bought are not what the dealer claimed.
The dealer is the "expert" on the dealer floor. You are basing your purchase of off information that he is supplying you. THEREFORE, if the dealer told you something was complete, and it's not - then they should either send you the part that is missing, or refund it and you mail it back.
It's true, you should have an idea how complete something is when you're shopping at a convention - but the dealer should know his stuff and if he doesn't, then perhaps he shouldn't be selling the items in the first place.
Post by: latinjoe22 on August 09, 2010, 10:57:45 PM
Quote from: "Radio Guy"
So, i picked up a lot of the stuff at the Can Joe Con that I'm very happy with...that being said, I just discovered that two pieces that I bought are not what the dealer claimed.
Bear in mind that although I am a big fan of the ARAH line, I do not have every figure and every accesory memorized. When I ask a dealer if the figure is complete and he says "yes", I believe him. If I ask if they are all original parts with no accessory pack stuff and he says "yes", I believe him. In this case, I was lied to twice. One figure was missing his backpack, and the other has a helmet that is not the original.
Not much i can do about this now, as the dealer was from Quebec. Just wondering if you think the dealer is at fault for misrepresenting, or should I be walking around with Bellamo's guide the whole time to ensure I don't get screwed?
The only dealer that I know from Quebec is a very competent collector himself...I wonder which dealer you are referring to. Can you provide additional info? Did he give you a business card? It is hard to believe it would be who I think it is but a misunderstanding is always possible, however twice? I'd say you have the right to think there is a reasonable doubt. PM me if you think I can help you.
Post by: BHMike on August 09, 2010, 10:58:53 PM
Quote from: "NeoDragonKnight"
Both at fault. One, you should check, two, he shouldn't lie or at least shouldn't say yes if he wasn't sure. Anything loose you really have to check yourself, its not like a sealed package where you know everything is in. Bellomo's book is nice to walk around with.
WRONG. The dealer is no different than a car salesman, or a TV salesman. He's there to give you information about the item and to be honest and up front with you. If he wasn't, then it's not your fault that he lied.
Post by: latinjoe22 on August 09, 2010, 11:06:47 PM
Quote from: "THE Mike™"
Quote from: "NeoDragonKnight"Both at fault. One, you should check, two, he shouldn't lie or at least shouldn't say yes if he wasn't sure. Anything loose you really have to check yourself, its not like a sealed package where you know everything is in. Bellomo's book is nice to walk around with.
WRONG. The dealer is no different than a car salesman, or a TV salesman. He's there to give you information about the item and to be honest and up front with you. If he wasn't, then it's not your fault that he lied.
I second the Mike. The dealer has the obligation:
1) to be knowledgable
2) to be honest
The buyer is always the victim when the dealer fails at one of the two.
Post by: NeoDragonKnight on August 09, 2010, 11:12:01 PM
Post by: Radio Guy on August 09, 2010, 11:50:42 PM
Quote from: "latinjoe22"
Quote from: "Radio Guy"So, i picked up a lot of the stuff at the Can Joe Con that I'm very happy with...that being said, I just discovered that two pieces that I bought are not what the dealer claimed.
Bear in mind that although I am a big fan of the ARAH line, I do not have every figure and every accesory memorized. When I ask a dealer if the figure is complete and he says "yes", I believe him. If I ask if they are all original parts with no accessory pack stuff and he says "yes", I believe him. In this case, I was lied to twice. One figure was missing his backpack, and the other has a helmet that is not the original.
Not much i can do about this now, as the dealer was from Quebec. Just wondering if you think the dealer is at fault for misrepresenting, or should I be walking around with Bellamo's guide the whole time to ensure I don't get screwed?
The only dealer that I know from Quebec is a very competent collector himself...I wonder which dealer you are referring to. Can you provide additional info? Did he give you a business card? It is hard to believe it would be who I think it is but a misunderstanding is always possible, however twice? I'd say you have the right to think there is a reasonable doubt. PM me if you think I can help you.
when i noticed the first figure was missing the backpack, i was willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it was an error. when the second figure had a helmet, but the wrong one, I felt that I had been scammed. i remember which dealer it was and will contact him to allow him the opportunity to make things right. whatever the outcome, i will let people on the board know .
Post by: Radio Guy on August 10, 2010, 12:07:18 AM
Post by: BHMike on August 10, 2010, 12:37:46 AM
Quote from: "NeoDragonKnight"
So if this happens in the future, is there a process in place to deal with this fraud I guess you would call it? Are you able to black ball the dealer from future cons?
I wouldn't do that (I don't know who it is anyway), but I would hope that if that dealer set up again, and didn't make things right with Radio Guy, that Radio Guy would warn you all about him.
Post by: Radio Guy on August 10, 2010, 12:53:46 AM
Quote from: "THE Mike™"
Quote from: "NeoDragonKnight"So if this happens in the future, is there a process in place to deal with this fraud I guess you would call it? Are you able to black ball the dealer from future cons?
I wouldn't do that (I don't know who it is anyway), but I would hope that if that dealer set up again, and didn't make things right with Radio Guy, that Radio Guy would warn you all about him.
I have sent the dealer a PM and will let everyone know what his response is.
Post by: master_stanley on August 10, 2010, 08:21:30 AM
Post by: condor knight on August 10, 2010, 08:43:50 AM
Quote from: "THE Mike™"
The dealer is the "expert" on the dealer floor. You are basing your purchase of off information that he is supplying you. THEREFORE, if the dealer told you something was complete, and it's not - then they should either send you the part that is missing, or refund it and you mail it back.
It's true, you should have an idea how complete something is when you're shopping at a convention - but the dealer should know his stuff and if he doesn't, then perhaps he shouldn't be selling the items in the first place.
I agree with The Mike
As a dealer. I have always been honest and truthful. I know that as we all get older, memory starts to fail so that's why i always say if it is marked as complete then it is complete.
Post by: Bandalero on August 10, 2010, 12:01:38 PM
There's one dealer I like because he has a well organized and extensive ARAH collection each year. But he was busy with customers, and this one guy just would not move from the 1988 box - omg, I stood there for 5 minutes watching him and he was oblivious, just sifting through the dealer's goods. I mean a little consideration is all I ask. Anyways, the dealer was busy, this other customer was being a jerk, so I asked the helper if he had a figure so I cold speed things up and the dude had no clue - frustrating. I ended up not buying anything from this dealer this year.
I was looking for a Repeater and one dealer had him with his backpack - I pointed out he wasn't complete and inquired about his gun. He thought it was complete (not sure why or how) but to his credit he tried to find Repeater in Mark Bellamo's guide. Now I don't know if he was stressed with the amount of folks at his table, but the poor fella couldn't find him in the 1988 category and there was no point in asking his helper because he didn't have a clue about G.I. Joe. I know what the gun looks like but I didn't want to stick around.
I know it can be a stressful environment, but I expect Dealers to know their goods, or at least higher help that are familiar with their goods. Is that too much to ask?
Post by: canprime on August 10, 2010, 01:47:18 PM
However remember: "Caveat Emptor". Buyer beware. To go into a show like this without knowledge or reference material is putting yourself at a disadvantage
Post by: Sundance on August 10, 2010, 04:08:54 PM
Post by: master_stanley on August 10, 2010, 06:27:14 PM
Quote from: "Bandalero"
Interesting topic. What I found in my experience there was that some of the dealers had helpers. No problem with that, but those folks, try as they might were not familiar with the toys which lead to a somewhat frustrating experience as a customer.
There's one dealer I like because he has a well organized and extensive ARAH collection each year. But he was busy with customers, and this one guy just would not move from the 1988 box - omg, I stood there for 5 minutes watching him and he was oblivious, just sifting through the dealer's goods. I mean a little consideration is all I ask. Anyways, the dealer was busy, this other customer was being a jerk, so I asked the helper if he had a figure so I cold speed things up and the dude had no clue - frustrating. I ended up not buying anything from this dealer this year.
I was looking for a Repeater and one dealer had him with his backpack - I pointed out he wasn't complete and inquired about his gun. He thought it was complete (not sure why or how) but to his credit he tried to find Repeater in Mark Bellamo's guide. Now I don't know if he was stressed with the amount of folks at his table, but the poor fella couldn't find him in the 1988 category and there was no point in asking his helper because he didn't have a clue about G.I. Joe. I know what the gun looks like but I didn't want to stick around.
I know it can be a stressful environment, but I expect Dealers to know their goods, or at least higher help that are familiar with their goods. Is that too much to ask?
So let me get this straight you didn't buy from one guy because he was busy with customers and another customer was hording the 1980's box. So you blame the dealer and the person who was nice to help him or her? How much do you think we make at our tables we can't afford to pay people who are knowledgeable to come with us other then a couple of dealers with big stores like silver snail. Sorry but it's reality check time. My helpers where all voultary and one even had to pay to get in just so he could help load the boxes back up after the show. I seen lots of dealers there who where losing money on items they where selling. One guy paid $16.00 American for target exclusives and was selling them for $5.00 each to get ride of them. I agree if a dealer says it's complete then it should be but you guys expect to much from the dealers you also should be knowledgeable about what your buying. Also if the guy was to busy come back later just like if you don't like a line up in a store come back when it's less busy.
Post by: Bandalero on August 10, 2010, 06:58:18 PM
Quote from: "master_stanley"
So let me get this straight you didn't buy from one guy because he was busy with customers and another customer was hording the 1980's box. So you blame the dealer and the person who was nice to help him or her? How much do you think we make at our tables we can't afford to pay people who are knowledgeable to come with us other then a couple of dealers with big stores like silver snail. Sorry but it's reality check time. My helpers where all voultary and one even had to pay to get in just so he could help load the boxes back up after the show. I seen lots of dealers there who where losing money on items they where selling. One guy paid $16.00 American for target exclusives and was selling them for $5.00 each to get ride of them. I agree if a dealer says it's complete then it should be but you guys expect to much from the dealers you also should be knowledgeable about what your buying. Also if the guy was to busy come back later just like if you don't like a line up in a store come back when it's less busy.
Okay I'm not sure why you're taking this personally, were you the dealer I was talking about? Anyways let me dispell a few of your assumptions:
1. I know exactly what I'm looking for, 1988 Repeater has a steady-cam black machine gun.
2. The dealer that had him with a backpack said he was complete - not the case, but what got me was that he didn't know what the gun looked like and had to try to find it in the guide which he was unsuccessful at even though i told him the year '88.
3. The inconsiderate customer hogging the 1980s box had nothing to do with the other dealer or his helper but added to my frustration.
4. Mike and a few other guys knew I was there for the morning only, and minus the 2 hours lining up, i circled the floor 5-6 times. My stupid luck was the dealer was always busy with someone else.
5. Three times I inquiried about something to someone who looked available at three different tables and three times I was told - "sorry man I'm just watching the stuff" - it gets a little frustrating after the second time.
That was my experience. And it's my honest opinion that if you're going to hire someone, hire someone that has some kinda inclination of the product they are "watching" that's all geez.
On the flipside there were other dealers there than knew their stuff. I actually bought figures from one dealer because he knew what he had out and what he had in stock, he wasn't fumbling around for accessories or prices - go figure.
Post by: turner on August 10, 2010, 07:13:54 PM
Post by: master_stanley on August 11, 2010, 06:03:55 PM
Quote from: "Bandalero"
Quote from: "master_stanley"So let me get this straight you didn't buy from one guy because he was busy with customers and another customer was hording the 1980's box. So you blame the dealer and the person who was nice to help him or her? How much do you think we make at our tables we can't afford to pay people who are knowledgeable to come with us other then a couple of dealers with big stores like silver snail. Sorry but it's reality check time. My helpers where all voultary and one even had to pay to get in just so he could help load the boxes back up after the show. I seen lots of dealers there who where losing money on items they where selling. One guy paid $16.00 American for target exclusives and was selling them for $5.00 each to get ride of them. I agree if a dealer says it's complete then it should be but you guys expect to much from the dealers you also should be knowledgeable about what your buying. Also if the guy was to busy come back later just like if you don't like a line up in a store come back when it's less busy.
Okay I'm not sure why you're taking this personally, were you the dealer I was talking about? Anyways let me dispell a few of your assumptions:
1. I know exactly what I'm looking for, 1988 Repeater has a steady-cam black machine gun.
2. The dealer that had him with a backpack said he was complete - not the case, but what got me was that he didn't know what the gun looked like and had to try to find it in the guide which he was unsuccessful at even though i told him the year '88.
3. The inconsiderate customer hogging the 1980s box had nothing to do with the other dealer or his helper but added to my frustration.
4. Mike and a few other guys knew I was there for the morning only, and minus the 2 hours lining up, i circled the floor 5-6 times. My stupid luck was the dealer was always busy with someone else.
5. Three times I inquiried about something to someone who looked available at three different tables and three times I was told - "sorry man I'm just watching the stuff" - it gets a little frustrating after the second time.
That was my experience. And it's my honest opinion that if you're going to hire someone, hire someone that has some kinda inclination of the product they are "watching" that's all geez.
On the flipside there were other dealers there than knew their stuff. I actually bought figures from one dealer because he knew what he had out and what he had in stock, he wasn't fumbling around for accessories or prices - go figure.
No I was not the dealer you are referring to I don't need a book to identify my stuff when's it's joe related.
Post by: gsmiley007 on August 11, 2010, 11:46:03 PM
You must remember, some of the "dealers" are collectors like you and me... If they have a helper - then they are extremely lucky.
I wasn't going to have a helper at all, but I found out that my cousin was able to help me. I don't have the extra money to "hire" help. So I wouldn't go blaming the dealers if their "family, spouse, girlfriend" are helping out for the simple stuff of collecting money and watching out for 5 finger discounts.
Dealers should know if a figure is complete or not - I agree, up to a certain year - as how many collectors know all the weapons that go on figures from 1992 and up?
As for dealers having to know what they have. Would you know what you had exactly if you had this stuff? I have literally thousands of accessories, and hundreds of figures - my $2 bin had at least 200+ figures in it.
I'm lucky enough just to keep the stuff as organized as I can, since this is not my full time job, like most other dealers in room.
This was some of the stuff I brought.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v470/gsmiley007/con%20stuff/?action=view¤t=IMG_7374Large.jpg (http://http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v470/gsmiley007/con%20stuff/?action=view¤t=IMG_7374Large.jpg)
I would like to see if anybody could know the entire contents of all that is pictured there. I would be extremely amazed.
Also, you never know, it could have been complete, but when a dealer wasn't looking - there could have been a 5 finger discount on the accessory or sometime it's just human error. I fix up Radio Guy this year, he bought a complete tunnel rat off of me, but he said one flashlight was missing. It was complete when I put it in the box, but maybe something happened to it or I thought it was complete, but I got distracted when putting him in the bag. Lucky thing I had an extra and gave it to him this year.
Post by: Bandalero on August 12, 2010, 09:38:59 AM
But I'm giving you guys the benefit of the doubt - it's a stressful situation when you have 10 customers crowding your table, thousands of little pieces of plastic to identify, not your full-time job, and keeping an eye out for 5-finger discounts.
And in retrospect, I should have clued-in as to why there was someone available, not dealing with customers, because they probably told everyone they were "just watching the stuff" too.
Still I do aprpeciate the effort you guys put into setting up for shows like this.
P.S. from that pic you linked to, you're the dealer I like to visit each year!
Post by: pdaat on August 12, 2010, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: "master_stanley"
He should refund your money, if you ask a dealer then he should be truthful if he does not know he should say so. I had a mms on my table many picked it up but every time I pointed out it was repaired. So in the end it didn't sell I keep saying it's been repaired in two spots it's only good for parts. If it was one figure then likely an accident but two looks fishy. I say bring the bellomo book around with you or check before leaving the show. Then you can set it right at the show, always ask to take the figure out of the container to check it anyone can do that with my stuff.The man speaketh the truth. He did point out the MMS was repaired!
Post by: Radio Guy on September 11, 2010, 11:31:39 AM
Post by: latinjoe22 on September 15, 2010, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: "Radio Guy"
Just as a follow up, I was able to contact the dealer, and not only did he profusely appologize, but also mailed me the correct and missing items this week. I believe him when he says that it was a mistake, and look forward to purchasing from him again at next years Convention.
Glad that it was settled in the best of ways. I know the seller is a good guy here and off the boards, and I would be ready to vouch for him as the situation requires it. But I just had the confidence it would all work out in the end, so there was never any need for interfering.
Post by: Propergrounds on September 15, 2010, 07:08:20 PM
(he lives about an hour and a half from me)
He's a great guy with great prices.Glad it all worked out.I knew it would.
Post by: grunt 4 mvp on September 15, 2010, 08:54:06 PM
Quote from: "Bandalero"
There's one dealer I like because he has a well organized and extensive ARAH collection each year. But he was busy with customers, and this one guy just would not move from the 1988 box - omg, I stood there for 5 minutes watching him and he was oblivious, just sifting through the dealer's goods. I mean a little consideration is all I ask. Anyways, the dealer was busy, this other customer was being a jerk, so I asked the helper if he had a figure so I cold speed things up and the dude had no clue - frustrating. I ended up not buying anything from this dealer this year.
I know it can be a stressful environment, but I expect Dealers to know their goods, or at least higher help that are familiar with their goods. Is that too much to ask?
5 minutes stressed you out?! I would have just sifted through something else for a while. Or asked the guy 'hogging it' if he came across Repeater as he was sifting through.
And the helpers are there to stop things from being stolen or to try their best to help. Probably friends or spouses to keep the dealer company. Just an extra pair of hands.
I think your expectations are unrealistic - it's not a fast food line -it's a toy convention!