Post by: olyeller01 on November 04, 2009, 12:12:53 AM
Hasbro, THIS is the direction you should take Joe as soon as you get all the movie crap out of your system. Granted, I've liked a fair amount of the RoC stuff...but I LOVE the Resolute stuff, and would love to see more, more, more!
Post by: Jay on November 04, 2009, 01:36:38 AM
Quote from: "olyeller01"
And came away as impressed with it the second time around as the first?Yep.
Which is to say, not at all.
The only thing more "mature" about it was having more people die, which I still say is a worthless replacement for things like intelligent storytelling, of which Resolute was completely devoid of.
I never want to see a Resolute cartoon ever again.
I would, however, love to see GIJoe go an Animated route, with stylized designs and incredibly awesome tales filled with easter eggs to even the most obscure bits of Joe fiction (sticker books, storybooks, what have you).
Post by: morgardee on November 04, 2009, 08:46:20 AM
I thought Resolute was great. Yes, I can see Jay's point about not needing to kill off characters because that was a valid point when Captain America was killed off and when Devil's Due got trigger happy. However, Larry Hama killed off several Joe's in his comic book run and as much as it sucked to have some classic characters die, it did two important things; it showed that Joe was not invincible, thus making the team more realistic and not glamorize war as much and it moved the story forward.
I would use the same argument for Resolute. Sure, I hated the fact they killed off Bludd, one of my all time favorite characters from G.I. Joe but by doing that right away it also got my attention. I knew within 5 minuets that this was going to be another bit of fluff like the catroon series from the 80's was where red and blue laser flew everywhere and no one was hit. It didn't advance the story, but I knew the gloves were off and anything goes. Again it grabbed my attention and it really set the mood for the next hour.
The animation of Resolute was very enjoyable. It was darker and gritty.
At the end the finished product did feel like a more mature product, and it's not just because a few guys died in the show. The characters had more personality in Resolute then they ever had in the 80's cartoon.
I look forword to more resolute cartoons and toys.
Post by: Jay on November 04, 2009, 10:49:25 AM
Quote from: "morgardee"
I thought Resolute was great. Yes, I can see Jay's point about not needing to kill off characters because that was a valid point when Captain America was killed off and when Devil's Due got trigger happy. However, Larry Hama killed off several Joe's in his comic book run and as much as it sucked to have some classic characters die, it did two important things; it showed that Joe was not invincible, thus making the team more realistic and not glamorize war as much and it moved the story forward.Perhaps they did move the story somewhat, but it still remains the story was not written any more maturely than any of the 80s cartoon episodes.
And it took Larry quite a number of issues before he got around to killing some toy-characters off. He didn't resort to it as often as Resolute did in its brief existance.
Quote
At the end the finished product did feel like a more mature product, and it's not just because a few guys died in the show. The characters had more personality in Resolute then they ever had in the 80's cartoon.I disagree. Storm Shadow, one of my favorites, was dumbed down into a jealous little manchild. Even ignoring Hama's great portrayal, the cartoon managed to portray him as a bit of an oddity within Cobra, being very honor-bound. Sticking ONLY to the old cartoon portrayals, there was still a lot of dumbing down. Duke was every bit as bland mcblandsky as he was in the cartoon (and people complain about Channing Tatum being dull? He's the best Duke we've had since Hama's!), and a big man-child just like Stormy, being more concerned that Scarlett would choose him over Snake-Eyes than with saving the world. Zartan went from a more intelligent mercenary to a moron who's all HAHAHAHAILOVEKILLINGHAHAHAHA. Scarlett was on par with her cartoon portrayal, give or take a pitiful "love triangle" between Duke and Snake-Eyes.
Comparing furthrer with their portrayals in the Marvel comics, the gap is even wider. Since Storm Shadow's story borrows exclusively from the comic, he's the worst offender of the bunch.
From a plot and execution standpoint, Resolute remains as epically stupid as the 80s cartoon. Duke and Scarlett escape unscathed from standing smackdab in the middle of a crossfire against something like 20 Cobras. Cobra Commander goes out like a complete boob, Duke somehow manages to figure out everything about Cobra's skylaser thing's control panel in five seconds. The entire climax was a gigantic letdown in itself.
More gritty? Perhaps. More mature? Not by a bloody long shot.
Post by: Scramble on November 04, 2009, 10:53:48 AM
Quote from: "morgardee"
The characters had more personality in Resolute then they ever had in the 80's cartoon.
Whoa whoa WHOA! Sunbow may have been about wild science fiction stories, questionable logic, and the military grit of an ant colony, but one thing they did extremely well was characterization. Hawk, Flint, and Duke were distinct even though they played a similar hero/leader roll, Deep Six came off as socially awkward as his filecard implied, Beachhead was a huge jerk, Shipwreck a lazy womanizer, etc. The Cobras were as distinct as the Joes. I'd argue that, outside of a few select characters, Sunbow did better characterization than even the Marvel comic.
This is not to knock Resolute. It was a stylized adventure lead by tone and pace. People complain about the story but what they succeeded at was taking the Sunbow round-the-world race against time formula and added 24's action rush style. It may not have been the GI Joe cartoon that everyone wanted but it was clearly the GI Joe cartoon the filmmakers wanted. As far as characterization, other than a few new takes on old characters, they were basically the Sunbow Joes and Cobras.
Post by: morgardee on November 04, 2009, 01:32:04 PM
As for Scrambles take on the characters, I'll agree that Sunbow did a nice job fleshing out some characters like Alley Viper and I'm willing to admit that I'm guilty of overlooking Sunbow but I haven't seen those since they first aired so I don't remember everything they did. So let me rephrase "The characters had more personality in Resolute then they ever had in the original 80's cartoon."
I've said my peace on why I liked Resolute. I know it won't please everyone.
Post by: Scramble on November 04, 2009, 02:54:30 PM
Quote from: "morgardee"
As for Scrambles take on the characters, I'll agree that Sunbow did a nice job fleshing out some characters like Alley Viper and I'm willing to admit that I'm guilty of overlooking Sunbow but I haven't seen those since they first aired so I don't remember everything they did. So let me rephrase "The characters had more personality in Resolute then they ever had in the original 80's cartoon."
I don't know why you're comparing Resolute to the 80s cartoon when you're admitting you haven't seen them since the 80s. I`m not saying Resolute lacked character. I`m saying you aren`t giving the 80s cartoon enough credit. The Sunbow character`s oozed personality.
Post by: B on November 04, 2009, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: "Jay"
Quote from: "olyeller01"And came away as impressed with it the second time around as the first?Yep.
Which is to say, not at all.
The only thing more "mature" about it was having more people die, which I still say is a worthless replacement for things like intelligent storytelling, of which Resolute was completely devoid of.
I never want to see a Resolute cartoon ever again.
I would, however, love to see GIJoe go an Animated route, with stylized designs and incredibly awesome tales filled with easter eggs to even the most obscure bits of Joe fiction (sticker books, storybooks, what have you).
Are you talking like Justice League animated or more again Sigma 6 style?
Post by: Jay on November 04, 2009, 04:00:14 PM
Quote from: "B"
Are you talking like Justice League animated or more again Sigma 6 style?Oh, sorry.
I was referring to something not unlike Transformers Animated, which was the best Transformers show we Transfans had gotten since Beast Wars ended.
Post by: morgardee on November 04, 2009, 04:30:03 PM
Quote from: "Scramble"
Quote from: "morgardee"As for Scrambles take on the characters, I'll agree that Sunbow did a nice job fleshing out some characters like Alley Viper and I'm willing to admit that I'm guilty of overlooking Sunbow but I haven't seen those since they first aired so I don't remember everything they did. So let me rephrase "The characters had more personality in Resolute then they ever had in the original 80's cartoon."
I don't know why you're comparing Resolute to the 80s cartoon when you're admitting you haven't seen them since the 80s. I`m not saying Resolute lacked character. I`m saying you aren`t giving the 80s cartoon enough credit. The Sunbow character`s oozed personality.
I have watched the 80's cartoon. I have the boxed set. I just don't care enough to know which set was DIC and which was Sunbow, thus why I agreed to change my point to say "The original 80's cartoon". The original cartoon characters were fine for a 10 year old but the Resolute characters felt more mature to me. The original cartoon characters were all very campy.
Post by: Scramble on November 04, 2009, 08:55:57 PM
Quote from: "morgardee"
Quote from: "Scramble"Quote from: "morgardee"As for Scrambles take on the characters, I'll agree that Sunbow did a nice job fleshing out some characters like Alley Viper and I'm willing to admit that I'm guilty of overlooking Sunbow but I haven't seen those since they first aired so I don't remember everything they did. So let me rephrase "The characters had more personality in Resolute then they ever had in the original 80's cartoon."
I don't know why you're comparing Resolute to the 80s cartoon when you're admitting you haven't seen them since the 80s. I`m not saying Resolute lacked character. I`m saying you aren`t giving the 80s cartoon enough credit. The Sunbow character`s oozed personality.
I have watched the 80's cartoon. I have the boxed set. I just don't care enough to know which set was DIC and which was Sunbow, thus why I agreed to change my point to say "The original 80's cartoon". The original cartoon characters were fine for a 10 year old but the Resolute characters felt more mature to me. The original cartoon characters were all very campy.
Okay, now I see. Every time you said Sunbow, you meant Dic. Every time you said original, you meant Sunbow. So what you revised was exactly what I disagreed with. You can call them corny, but any cartoon that can show 10 year olds that Flint and Lady Jaye like each other without ever once saying it knows how to characterize. When I think of Beachhead, Shipwreck, the Baroness, Destro, Cobra Commander, pretty much any character featured prominently on the show, I think of the Sunbow version of the characters.
Post by: olyeller01 on November 04, 2009, 09:02:29 PM
Jay, I have to disagree with you on Resolute being less "mature" than the 80's cartoon. I started watching them after Resolute and was put off by the out-and-out campiness of them. Sure there are some great episodes, but some things like the Fuzzy Wuzzies are just inexcusable. The character development may not be totally there, but that's part of the limitations of the amount of time they had in the show. If you watch the developer interview, they stated that they made Resolute Storm Shadow the Yang to Snake Eyes' Yin, mainly because of the lack of time they had to develop the character, and they wanted to focus on the conflict.
Besides, there's still hope for a more 80's style Resolute Storm Shadow. The end of the DVD shows a view of the Arashikage island. Storm Shadow's grave is empty!
Post by: B on November 05, 2009, 06:19:31 AM
Post by: Scramble on November 05, 2009, 12:40:30 PM
Quote from: "olyeller01"
the Fuzzy Wuzzies are just inexcusable.
Fatal Furies. ;D
Post by: Jay on November 05, 2009, 01:08:59 PM
Post by: morgardee on November 05, 2009, 02:54:49 PM
Post by: Jay on November 05, 2009, 05:19:15 PM
Quote from: "morgardee"
Yes, great characters like the Conan or Geraldo wanna be people real made the original 80's cartoon a stand out, mature show.Better them than great characters like Resolute Flint and Resolute Gung-Ho and Resolute Wild Bill and... wait, they didn't even have personalities in Resolute!
Post by: Silverhawk on November 08, 2009, 10:10:28 PM
Post by: Stratos on December 05, 2009, 04:56:30 PM
Post by: Jay on December 05, 2009, 06:42:12 PM
Quote from: "Stratos"
I've watched it twice on DVD since the day it was released. This is how GI Joe needs to be!Grimdark, devoid of personality, packed full of crappy deus ex machinas and with affable villains, with only four people doing all the voices?
No thank you. I'll stick with Rise of Cobra and the Origins comic.
Post by: morgardee on December 05, 2009, 09:56:02 PM
Quote from: "Jay"
Quote from: "Stratos"I've watched it twice on DVD since the day it was released. This is how GI Joe needs to be!Grimdark, devoid of personality, packed full of crappy deus ex machinas and with affable villains, with only four people doing all the voices?
No thank you. I'll stick with Rise of Cobra and the Origins comic.
Jay, you've made your feeling heard now please stop attacking other people posts . Let some other people share how they feel without worrying that someone is going to debate with them on how they feel.
Thank you.
Post by: Stratos on December 05, 2009, 10:11:48 PM
Post by: DJinvasor on December 05, 2009, 11:08:21 PM
Post by: dodge822 on December 05, 2009, 11:12:33 PM
Post by: latinjoe22 on February 06, 2010, 05:29:57 PM
An hour it lasted and what an amazing hour it was. Absolutely worth paying 17$ for it. Thanks for the great posts guys, it's what made me want to watch it in the end.
Post by: condor knight on February 07, 2010, 08:59:06 AM
Post by: pdaat on February 07, 2010, 09:09:42 AM
To be honest, I wasn't too much of a fan of the original series, it was the comics that got me into Joes and kept me there.
Post by: latinjoe22 on February 07, 2010, 12:24:38 PM
Anyone noticed other Joeverse vehicle similarities?
Post by: olyeller01 on February 07, 2010, 12:46:24 PM
Post by: latinjoe22 on February 07, 2010, 01:50:47 PM
Quote from: "olyeller01"
I have since loaned my copy of Resolute out several times, twice to people who aren't even Joe fans, and everyone has come back raving about it. My friend Ty was kind of skeptical, but he brought my copy back to me, handed it to me, and said, "Dude, Snake Eyes is a BAD mother @%#$!@!!!!" If it's something non-Joe fans can enjoy, then I find it greatly successful.
Bingo, that's exactly what I think now. I read a few complaints discrediting this animation but when watching it, there was never a doubt in my mind that this is not the Joe I grew up with and that's the way it was going to remain until the last 58th minute of it. It has a lot of give and take I would say. More mature on the blood, bullets and characters getting killed (if we compare with the previous shows only) and a bit less mature on some dialogues and character behaviours, agreed. I'm rather glad it took a new approach, and glad a few of us may not have liked it as much. For every Joe fan that didn't like it there's always a good chance that a non Joe fan did.
It could've been a cooking show with people dressed up as Joes. To people who don't know about Joe, who cares if they look like military cooks, as long as the recipes are good, and it's entertaining. OKay, yeah Joes and cooking
right.If we long for what we grew up with, then thankfully there's always the good old Sunbow and DIC shows, and the comic books that we can turn to. The old memories are what supposedly brought the fans together in the first place, so the second cannot undo the first one - Yo-Jack!
Post by: Jon S. on February 07, 2010, 04:48:25 PM
The Resolute cartoon was an excuse to deliver a bad-ass cartoon intended for an older audience without pulling any punches. There simply wasn't time to fully develop everyone on the show.
I personally believe Resolute to be the finest G.I.Joe cartoon ever made, but still have fond memories of the old toon and its hilarious characters/caricatures.
... as an aside, I found Hama's endless flip-flopping of loyalties and brainwashings and retcons tiresome. Larry's a fantastic writer but not without flaws. Storm Shadow's changing of loyalties in the comics did not make him a complex character, just an inconsistent one.